Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ken Water's "Pet Loads"

Ken,
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<br>My point is that I see no load development theory or practice in Water's Pet Loads. In fact I see Pet Loads as the antithesis of a load development technique.
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<br>Go ahead and edit as you see fit. Moderators and editing are necessary on the forums as well as elsewhere. But I point out that you did not threatend to edit when Parker Ackley was accused here in your forum of attempted murder!
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<br>Water's writes a happy page and does it well and in volume. We need writers like that. It rests the mind from all that hard stuff like thinking. I do that when I sit in the forest and just look around me.

Don,
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<br>Actually, being the anal sort of number crunching DBA that I am, I have the data points of my very extensive library loaded into a data base. I hired a UMO-KC student to do all that work a couple of summers ago. It took her nearly three (3) months to capture and load the historical data, but now it only takes a few hours each month to keep current.
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<br>If I want to look at the .32 Winchester Special, I run the report and it will show data for all of the periodicals and reloading manual that have been captured. I didn't say that I felt that Ken was comprehensive, I said that I liked to start with Pet Loads and inferred that I would more forward from there.
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<br>Sincerely,
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<br>Bearrr264
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<br>PS So, have you had any new thoughts about how worthless the .260 Remington is?

Don wrote:
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<br>Loads for those cartridges are in all of the Ideal and Lyman manuals thru #43 at least. Not only are they in there but they list minimum and maximum loads a concept that Waters has not invented yet.
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<br>Don,
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<br>I don't quite get that last statement -- in each "Pet Loads" article, Waters describes the expansion criteria he will regard as showing "maximum" and indicates which loads hit that level. Whether you agree with his methodology or not, he does have the concept.
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<br>As for "minimum," no, he doesn't list his starting loads. Neither do the Alliant, IMR or Winchester manuals, all of which just say to start 10% down from the maximum.
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<br>John
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Dr. Howell,
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<br>Very good to see/read,that you are not brooking much in the way of sheeite as of late. While I'm the last jump to conclusions and HATE to assume anything,your mood seems to be chipper(and I hope my guess is accurate in that regard).
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<br>With that in mind,I wish you both the best of health and a minimum of bullsheeite to sort through.
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<br>Regards.................
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<br>(and Don,the timing of my comments had nothing to do with your above post/s)..............Give or take(grin)....................

Bearrrrr - If you load for the .32 Win Spec, Id' sure like to hear your starting load data
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<br>Thanks, sse

Friend Don, herewith (a) a mandatory clarification, (b) an invitation, and (c) a recommendation:
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<br>(a) Please, by no means consider my request for a "huge favor" (above) as anything approaching or suggesting a banishing. You're always welcome here as far as I'm concerned -- I just prefer that no one continue to obsessively stroke a pet peeve against someone or grind a pejorative axe here. "Let all things be done unto edifying" or entertaining.
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<br>(b) You're experienced, intelligent, articulate -- you even spell well (not a universal skill). Please give the rest of us the benefit of your recipe for what you consider an intelligent and sound technique for developing optimum loads. I think you'll find even the contrary opinions that it'll inspire more edifying and satisfying than venting ire toward Ken Waters.
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<br>I have every confidence that you can do it the way I advised Ken W to answer an article that he bitterly complained to me about. I urged him to send me an article on his method of miking case expansion when he took umbrage and complained because I published Bob Hagel's article on Bob's way of miking cases. I told KW that he should write his article with no mention whatever of anyone else's method -- as if he'd never heard of BH, as if BH had never been born, had never advocated another method of miking cases. That approach hadn't occurred to KW. Embracing it, he agreed -- and sent me an excellent presentation of his method. I published Ken's article as a "Pet Loads" special and later included it in a supplement to the original "Pet Loads" book. A positive presentation is far superior to an argumentative, contentious one -- IF the presenter has the stuff of a solid presentation that doesn't have to stand on the bloodied body of a rival.
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<br>(c) Wrap your gray matter around (and squeeze) one of the books that I've found both edifying and enjoyable -- Michael J Gelb's "How to Think like Leonardo da Vinci -- Seven Steps to Genius Every Day" (Delacorte Press, 1998).
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<br>Sum, ergo cogito (KEH version)

Don
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<br>With no small expectation, I'm looking forward to your
<br>book about Load Development Technique.
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<br>I'll take a signed copy. Even pay more for it.
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If you read just Ken Howells posts in this topic you will see why the Handloader and Rifle mags were so good when he was editor. Thanks Ken for the spelling comment but your just being nice.
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<br>If I write a article on how I develop a load then I will try to sell it. But I do have a specific proceedure.
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<br>Here is a free one for you www.windcharts.com/reality_based_load_development.htm

Friend Ken,I've been absent from the boards lately and just want to say it's good to see you haven't lost a step after the health problems.You would like the load I settled on for the 257 WBY. Around 50000 psi or less and still getting 3280 fps with the 117 gr. Hornady. Two shots today and two dead deer.It's opening day and the only thing I had shot with it was a coyote 'til now.
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<br>' Stick would have felt right at home here today; Misting rain all day long and temp in the mid-forties.Take care,gene.

I am a fan of 'Pet Loads'. It must be remembered that Pet Loads is a compilation of articles going back to the '70's.
<br> Where else can you find modern, safe data for the 256 Newton?
<br> Pet Loads, IMO, is an invaluable resource to anyone who loads, or wants to, a lot of different cartridges.

Jack,
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<br>Actually, probably not in Pet Loads, if you're shooting a modern rifle and not an original First Model Newton, like Ken Waters' rifle.
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<br>If you're a Newton guy, I can hook you up with a Newton Nut! If you're interested, send me a PM.
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<br>Sincerely,
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<br>Bearrr264

The Speer Manual #4 has plenty of loads for the .256 Newton that include all of the appropiate imr powders and H4831 also.
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<br>www.loadyourown.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000089.html

Personally I am a big Waters fan. I have been reloading for the last 25 years and the pressure ring method of Waters gave me an approach that I found very valuable over the years. As for the .358 article some of the earliest articles were a bit sketchy on detail and I think he blew it with his 6.5 Rem Mag write up but all in all Ken is my favourite writer. A gentleman with a good balanced point of view and a very credible writing style.... I think I would like to know him which is more than I can say for a lot of writers that came after him. He also doesn't jump on band wagons and remains committed to well balanced efficient cartridges over such rich boy toys as the 30-378 ect.

we as shooter's owe Ken Waters a great debt of gatitude.It would take a lifetime to shoot,load, and write about all of the guns he's reported on, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT TOOK HIM...A WHOLE LIFTIME!POWDR

I have always appreciated Ken Waters's work. What appeals to me is the fact that he seems to be "everyman" with the time and opportunity to tinker and experiment. Put another way, his approach is one to which I can relate. If we had some sort of device which would automatically eliminate all of the things that the reader already knows from each and every article, what would be left (a huge amount of material in my case) would not be nearly as interesting to read nor would it appear in the context in which it was written. One thing that I would mention is that if we were to heed all of the admonishment to always use only the most recent available data, such (to me) valuable resources as Pet Loads would be consigned to tinder duty. Best to all, John

After 35 years of active handloading, when starting a new project Pet Loads is still my first reference after the loading manuals.

A 6 year old thread is born again!
What did P O Ackley, Jack O'Connor, Bruce Hodgdon & Ken Waters have in common?
They weren't right all the time, just most of it.
One can only speculate what each might do with the (cheap) technology & wide variety of component & cartridges available in today's market.
Taking the advice of any of those guys will most likely serve you well, very well.

I love Pet Loads as a reference. Now if I can catch the (%^^%%$$*^^^ that stole mine, I will be happy. Since I can not find another copy anywhere!!!!!!!!

The latest edition of PET LOADS (includes all of the supplements) is available from Wolfe on line for $60.00.

Ken Waters offered a methodical, precise approach to reloading. He wrote very well and explained his steps completely. He's one that I'd love to sit down with and discuss handloading. I miss his writing.