Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Low Light and Objective size?

post a link that seems to be an interesting factoid.

Higher magnification is what matters in poor light...some say resolving power? You just need a large objective to make use of it. Take a VX3, Conquest, etc, set it on 10x (assuming 40mm objective, and then set any high quality 80mm spotter next to it and set it on 20x and tell me which one you can see more detail through.

Ingwe is correct. The human eye only opens to 7mm exit pupil if your a youngster. As one gets older 5 mm is more realistic.

Ones eyes are part of the optics that are being used and if you don't believe me then close them while looking through a scope and tell me how well you see.

A leupold 6X42 offers as good of light transmission as the human eyeball is capable of.

42÷6= 7 mm exit pupil






Shod

Shodd,



Do yourself a favor. Lay out your 6X42 and any good variable with 10X or more on the top end. Put them on sand bags. Aim them at some visible deer antlers in some bushes or trees about 100 yards away as the sun sets. Mark the time when you can not longer discern the points with the 6X and then look thought the other with it set on 10X or more. You will make the same discovery everyone who has tried this made.

My 6500 4 1/2-30 has a 50mm objective. My Minox 13X56 has TWO 56mm objectives and yet it looses out two minutes before the 6500 when it is set on 13X. Switch to the 4200 4-16X40 and put it on 13X and gain an additional couple minutes over the Minox 13X56. Magnification of good enough glass trumps exit pupil EVERY time.

Yep and that is a polite way of saying it is past legal\ethical deer hunting time. How many times do you see guys sight in their rifle at max power and a week later march off into the woods that way? There is a learning curve. A straight 6 power scope eliminates that curve. Newer, brighter, variables are even brighter than the 6x of just a few years ago but may require an experience or two before using them correctly.

Some of the heineholdt scopes are $11,000. It's what I need for a 24 yard deer in Georgia! Has the added benefit of weighting 3/4 of a metric ton.

Kenjs1,
I hunted with a guy who has eyes like an eagle and owl. I on the other hand suffer from night blindness. I have proven to myself and others who have a similar problem higher magnification works.

I get what you are saying. I just think inexperience causes people to blame perfectly good scopes. I can't help but feel for the vast majority of deer hunters if 6 or 7 x is not sufficient because the light is too low I probably don't want them taking the shot. If higher magnification is needed I would hope they are experienced - in which case they would likely know how to use the scope in the first place and not have trouble at 100 yds.

Off hand, my best guess would be that under classic low light conditions, a good, or even the highest quality, 8X56 rifle scopes won't do anything for you that a good 40mm variable won't do. That's because at worst, you are dealing with a situation that can handled by a good scope with a 5mm exit pupil. In fact, I've seen lots of "low light" and "last of the legal shooting time" conditions where a 40mm scope set at 10X will work. If that's the case, you'll be able to see further than an 8X56 scope can. On the other hand, a decent 8X56 scope can see quite well under true night time conditions where a 7mm exti pupil is required.
Low light conditions mean different things to different people. That's because some of us have lost some of our night vision. While the usual rule is a 5mm exit pupil, some can't even use that. When it gets dark enough, nothing works for such people. Only people with eyes still able to use a scope with a 7mm exit pupil can use such scopes, or scopes set to produce such exit pupils.
I might add that I've used binoculars and rifles scopes under unusually bright night time conditions where they worked with as little as a 4mm exit pupil.
I'm not of the opinion that scopes with 50-56mm objectives are useful to me. But I have no doubt that they can useful to some who hunt in bad light. Besides being useful in full darkness, they allow one to use more magnification and still have enough exit pupil to be useful. Such scopes will allow one to see further because they use more magnification.
Then we also have the type of reticle used under low light conditions. I've found that one really doesn't need to see the target all that well under many low light conditions. But, unless the target is pretty close to the shooter, say 50 yds. or less, one must be able to see the reticle. Especially if the target is on the order of 150-300 yds. out. E

Oheremicus,

I read enough of your post to believe you can see about as well as my eagle eyed friend. That puts you at one end of the ability spectrum and me, and guys like me, at the other end.

Here's an off topic question for you. My friend was Mr. Oregon three times. Were you Mr. Whatever State you live in?

Gosh, I've learned a bunch about optics in the last few minutes of reading this thread!

Theres lots to be learnt on this hole site!!!!

LOL!!!!

Thanks for the replies,

I suppose I'll just keep my 40mm scopes as I like the way they look on a rifle better and when it's too dark for me to see deer I'll just have to call it quits for the day.

Thanks.

Bob.

Well from a fellow alabamaian who has OLD EYES and night blindness
to boot that has hunted our states nocturnal deer for over 40 years
and not much luck to show for it!
What has helped me recently is a
LEUPOLD FX-3 6x42 with a HEAVY DUPLEX Reticle! at least for
my poor eyesight!
2nd a couple of used Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 scopes with
Green Dot Reticles I bought here used that really help with my Night Blindness !
Just a take from a OLD REDNECK from the Hollow.

How much one can see at "last legal" light depends on a lot of things. I have been at places where I was well ready to pack up before the clock said I had to and places where I could have hunted half the night away. The amount of illumination, tree cover, animal color (those dam black bears seem to just suck in light) background cover all matter as does the viewers eyes.

Can a scope help.. sure one only needs to have used one that was a hindrance to know there are better or worse choices. Whether the cost for best low light performance is worth it depends on the user. When I say costs, its not all just dollars, your likely pay in terms of scope price, size and weight as well.

To the OP who was wondering how the weaver 8x56 would work as compared to other scopes in the same price range. I would see if I could buy one from a place with good return policy and run some evening tests, next to your current rig. No need to mount it, and if its no improvement, back it goes with out a mark on it.

noKnees,

Very good post.

All things being equal (quality of glass and coatings) a 10X50 binocular will show you more detail in low light than an 8X40 binocular even though they both have a 5mm exit pupil of light for your eyes to use. You need more magnification and a larger objective to make resolution gains in low light.

The 10x50 has a higher twilight factor than the 8X40.

Wow--most people don't really understand how the eye perceives light! Nor how optics transmit light.

Tape an empty toilet paper tube to the ocular end of your scope to eliminate all stray light coming in from the sides, and most people could see to shoot until after dark with a current Wally World Tasco.

Just use the pythagurous theoretical, Naught plus Naught equals Naught, carry your Naught and you have Naught.

I like Ingwe's example the best, just like flowing water a 30mm tube lets in more light than a 25 mm tube. Then based on the widely referenced and annotated Swedish study of looking a partially clad women in the total darkness I find I need a 72 mm objective with a 34 mm tube which lets many out of the running.

In some parts (not here in Cajun Louisiana), how well you see game at night depends more on how much candle power you're burning than objective size...

Size does matter...

DF