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Certainly agree with Sanlen and Rock Chuck on the issue of truth being truth, and that there is only one truth. Truth is not relative. Truth is absolute. God will not lead two people in two different directions when it comes to truth. If they wind up at two different places, it was not God that took them there.

Jesus Christ DID NOT say, "I am A way, A truth, and A life." He was much more definitive than that. He said, "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life." That makes him exclusive, not inclusive.

He will EXclude all that do not come to God by him. He will IN clude all that come to God by him. Pretty simple.

NO MAN ocmeth unto the Father but by me.!

yee-haw!
(my family and i need prayer, by the way. rough emotional patch right now.)

You got it.

i have all of my wisdom teeth ...

Praying for your family, Brother.

Mr Wizard;

I was raised in a Methodist Church upon pain of death by my father. A baptist led me to Christ though and then I was baptized in the Holy Ghost in a Pentecostal way...

After going to India and Nepal as a missionary and living in VA Beach for about 12 years I got totally burned out on Pentecostal money corruptions, at least in the Va Beach area. Grace for money. I wrote a book on simony to contest what I came to hate. Along the way I researched and the documented the aspects of the famous reformers that touched on simony, ie Huss Luther, Wycliff, Savonarola and even Wesley and Bunyan.

In this context I had to study in minute detail the underlying Roman doctrine of indulgences and temporal punishment and all that relates to it. As I waded through it and interviewed some RC seminarians, priests, and scholars and read original source works with the imprimature etc. I was overwhelmed. Absolutely overwhelmed. The actual people I love, the written documents I have to reject. Specifically most of Trent, the 7th ecumenical, much of the latest catechism. It all ties together. When one document builds on another like Trent on the 7th and then the latest catechism on Trent and the 7th, it becomes impossible for reform to take place.

I must stand with Luther at Worms and say that popes and councils have erred and that my conscience has been taken captive by the word of God.

I am glad to discuss specific documents any time any place if it is done in an intelligent manner with grace all around, I don't like Jack Chick per say, and I don't like a boxing match atmosphere so to speak. Nonetheless I cannot get around the city of seven hills. No one can. It is Rome. Drunk with the blood of the saints--- Waldensian, Huguenots, Dutch Calvinists, English Protestants, Scotch Presbyterians, Huss, Tyndale, Savonarola, Cranmer, Ridley, Lattimer, St Bartholomews Day Massacre... on and on and on it goes. I don't see how anyone can get around this. But; many RC friends I have have not studied about the wars of inquisition or ST Bartholomews Day Massacre or even know who Cranmer was...

I agree there is only one truth but because of where a individual is at in their growth or maturity, they haven't come to the same understanding as others. We are so quick to call a man wrong but in reality, it's all he can see at this point. Thru much study and revelation a man soon understands that what he thought to be true wasn't at all. This guy's believe that the Catholic church is the great Whore is what he believes currently and he trying to get others to define his truth for him. God will lead him to that truth thru much fear and trembling if it be his will. The understanding of who God is and how he works is what drives all of us to the truth. You guy's were so quick to pounce on what was posted here and transpose your own learned truths on another that you failed to see that each man is in a different degree of glory and maturity but yet we need each other as brothers in Christ. How can you say another man is wrong when you've never walked a day in his shoes or you don't even understand where he comes from. I'm not speaking of myself in particular but in general terms. Let every man be a liar but let God be true. I do belive in Christ and I do believe in the salvation process but I do not judge my brother. I have love and understanding for him and tolerance of his differences even if they conflict with mine. I know the path I'm on and need not that any man teacheth. I accept all men based on who they are. Usually, a man will identify who he is based on what he say's and does. Then thru the process of applying what I've learned from him, I apply it to Gods word and let that be the judge. I then have peace with my brother even when I may intensely disagree(my flesh nature) but again I'm not here to judge or define his truth's right or wrong.

God Bless and Peace to All!

Gregsnider,
Sorry if sounded like 'pouncing' but your last post wasn't anything like your previous one. In the 1st one, you sounded like a Unitarian who says that all religions are right because God reveals himself to different people in different ways. I apologize if I read it wrong, but I thought you were saying that there are many different 'truths' and that just ain't the truth.

Dick

No offense taken brother. I may have failed to express my thoughts into words. I truly believe in spreading peace even in this crazy world but I truly hold fast that GOD's world is in order and he's in control.

Amen, Bro. Keith.

It's impossible to understand why people get angry with those who are trying to make them aware of the truth, but it has been going on for a long time.Let's all take a look at Gal. 4:16.

" Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you tell you the truth ? " Pauls' words.

Pauls' experience with the CHRISTIANS in Galatia reminds us that we often make enemies of our friends when we tell them the truth. Paul had introduced these people to the Lord and had nurtured them in the faith. But later when false teachers moved in to their CHRISTIAN assemblys, Paul had to warn believers that they were forsaking Christ for the law ! That caused them to become very angry toward their father in the faith.

Strange, isn't it,that when we try to point out the wrong in what someone believes, they very often become very angry with us and we then are accused of being wrong doers. I clearly remember of becoming very angry with those that presented the Gospel to me before I became a Christian. But I don't know why.

Read 1 Kings 18: 17. Here Ahab pounced Elijah for telling the truth, accusing him of troubling Israel.

Why does this happen ?

Seems like the theme of this thread is to warn people of Romanism by pointing out what is so plain to those that choose to really endeavor to study Gods' Word. Regardless of what version or translation of the Bible we read, the descriptions and evidence brought out in the book of the Revelation still comes out the same. I do not think anyone is trying to bash the people that attend the Roman church but only to try to make them aware of what the bible says and of what the teaching of their leaders says. The two teachings do not coincide with each other. I'm glad that I chose Gods' word.

And to the people that hold up for the Roman church, are you sure of what you have been taught ? Are you willing to bet your eternal future and the future of your children that you are correct in what you believe ?

If these warnings are wrong, then we that do not believe the Roman way must be wrong so will you please produce some documentation showing us that ? After all, the reason we are telling you what we are is so you might get a grasp on the
truth before it is too late.


STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD.....

Swampy, you just scored a home run with that bit of prose. Keep it up ! That's the message I have been trying to get out ever since I was saved 37 years ago. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You seem to be one of the few that have a grasp of what's going on here in the end time. Thank God for someone else that does.

Good points, good thinking... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe that many who may have heretofore never considered the obvious depiction of the Roman Catholic Church as Mystery Babylon in the end times must now be solemnly pondering just that.

I wanted to underscore, once again, that Christ acknowledges that He will have sheep within the membership of the Roman Catholic assembly:

Revelation 17--4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.

So again, and as others have pointed out, no one is claiming that all members of the RCC are hell bound. In fact, I think that our Catholic brethren here at the campfire are saved lovers of Christ (from what I've seen). It is the church heirarchy that Christ says he will destroy, certainly not those congregants who indeed are His sheep.

One last point. I think that the fact that Christ mentions that some of His people can be found within the confines of an institution as repugnant as Mystery Babylon tells us that His sheep can endure even the most apostate of teaching... and survive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dan

I do not think that very many people give Satan the credit he deserves. Anything that God is, satan is just the opposite and seems to be ALMOST as powerful as God. I will probably get clued in for that statement but before that happens, think about it. Look at what he was able to do with Job and in the Revelation, he is given the power of death but not the power to create life. Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the father of all lies. ALL LIES !! Even the ones that are told today come from him.
Matt. 24: 24 " For there shall arise false CHRISTS, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall decieve the very elect. " WOW !! That is a strong statement ! And there are many more that say the same thing, just worded a little differently.

Where do these FALSE CHRISTS and prophets come from ? They are followers of non other than Satan ! Do not underestimate his power and influence ! His power of deception certainly is not to be ignored. When Satan approached Eve, he did not come in the form of some loud mouth drunk or politician but as a beautiful creature. He did not take on the form of a snake until Gen. 3: 14. So just because a person dresses nice and speaks in a nice voice does not mean that he is o k. Test the spirits against the word of God. That is the only way you have of not being deceived. As we have all heard, if you think you can not be deceived, you already have been.

It would not be a bad idea for everyone to read Eph. 6: 10- 18. It's your eternal future at stake so be aware of what we are up against.

STUDY TO SHOW THY SELF APPROVED OF GOD............

I may not be a follower of the Catholic tradition, but I find the line of thought presented by some contributors here uninformed and mean-spirited.

By the way, Steve, I enjoy your contributions. I think your voice is needed around here. I am sorry that this "sword of judgement" fell upon you and your Tradition.

For the rest of the posters, please remind me how this topic "builds up" rather than "tears down"?

Wizard: I think you might want to stick to the Bibles with the colourful pictures in them. Hey, sometimes the words even rhyme. First digest the milk, then work on the meat...

Hey, that's OK. Martin Luther managed to delete several chapters from the Protestant Bible. He also boldly pronounced that James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation were "epistles of straw." (O'Hare, Facts About Luther, 202-3)

If Luther suspected that Revelation was talking about the Catholic Church as being the Whore of Babylon, he would have put neon lights around it. Seeing as he wanted to either delete Revelation or, at least bury it, he apparently did not have that insight.

Me? Heck, I'm perfectly happy to have "Come Home" to the Catholic Faith. To me, it is the fullest expression, the deepest possible expression, of faith and worship in Christ. And about 1.2 billion folks worldwide believe as we do.

Do I get tired of Protestants sniping away at the Catholic Church? Yeah, I do...actually, it hurts every time.

Surprisingly, we Catholics do not do the same. In all of the time I have spent with Catholic folks, I have never heard a negative word about Protestants, nor about any of the 35,000 different denominations. All I hear is, "Wow, that guy knows his Bible, just like we do."

Looking at it realistically, if the Protestants cannot get along with each other, how in Heaven's name could we Catholics expect them to get along with us?

Nothing positive ever results from name-calling and tearing down the other person's beliefs. We believe in respect and that is precisely what you will get from every true Catholic. We are not here on Earth to hurt and to diminish.

As a parenthetical thought: Karen and I are helping in our parish's RCIA Class this year (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults). The Tuesday evening class is about nine-months long and we will welcome our new Catholics to the Church next Easter. This year, we have a slew of Baptists that are taking the RCIA Class. I cannot tell you how fabulously fulfilling it is to help these wonderful folks along their journey of faith.

God Bless, Steve

+1

Kinda reminds me of the lion that was walking in the jungle. Comes upon a presbyterian and gobbles him down. Goes a little further and sees a Unitarian. Eats him too. A little farther down the path he eats a Baptist (funny it didn't give him the galloping trots <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ), a Catholic, a Moony and a JW.
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The next day, he had an ecumenical movement. :groan: