Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mono-Metal Bullet Safe For Drillings?

Are there any all copper bullets safe for use in the thin barreled drillings?

Would the banded Barnes bullets be safe?

I believe I'd contact Barnes and the other manufacturers of monumental and get their opinion .
Paul B.

I wouldn't chance it. I have no personal experience, but have read more than once that it's a bad idea, even for the heavier barrels of doubles. With good bonded bullets available, why risk messing up a treasure?

Personally, I'd even avoid something like a TBB, with its solid base.

Woodleigh might be able to help.

Why wouldn't they be???

How many brass solids have been fired through double rifles?

"Solids" usually refers to full metal jacketed, lead core bullets. Brass and copper mono-metal bullets are relatively new, with some possible exceptions. Double rifles have two barrels soldered together with a rib between. The barrels are generally relatively thin, especially towards the muzzle. Forcing a mono- metal bullet that has little or no give to it down such barrels potentially could damage the barrel itself or the integrity of the assembly. One might fire a number of rounds with no apparent problem and then have things go wrong.

The barrels of drillings appear to be even lighter than those of doubles, although some of that may be due to the smaller calibers they generally are.

If the OP can get in touch with Ross Seyfried, gun writer/professional hunter/elk guide/former pistol champion, he would likely be able to give some first hand advice. Ross has probably played with more such toys than almost anyone in the business.

Drillings do have very thin rifle barrels, and many come in quite large calibers. The thin barrels near the muzzle save weight, and there's no danger because pressures become quite low as the bullet travels further down the barrel. There's also no reason for the stiffness of a heavy barrel, since the rifle barrel is soldered to two shotgun barrels, one reason many drillings are very accurate.

ALL rifle barrels expand slightly as the bullet passes, and the effect if of course exaggerated in very light barrels, which can loosen the solder connecting the barrels. The same thing can happen even in very thin shotgun barrels when modern loads with shot harder than lead are used, the reason steel and Hevi-Shot aren't advised for older doubles with thin barrels, especially with any choke righter than IC.

It would be a reasonable guess that "banded" copper bullets like Barnes TSX's and Hornady GMX's would result in fewer potential problems than solid-shank bullets like the original X's and Nosler E-Tips, but even some TSX's and GMX's have a solid shank section, or at least a wider band. Probably the safest bet would be very light-for-caliber TSX's, since GMX's are made of "copper alloy," not pure copper like TSX's, which is probably the same gilding metal (a very soft brass, copper alloyed with a little zinc) used for jackets in most rifle bullets.

The other potential problem is that rifle barrels in many drillings have bores varying slightly from what we'd consider standard. If a little smaller than standard, this would increase the potential for damage to the solder holding the barrels together.

Past the first inch of rifling I don't see a mono causing any more "snake swallowing an egg" effect than a regular bullet, the rifling impression already having been made. So it seems like any problems should occur right at the beginning of the bullet travel.

Am I making sense?

That would sure tend to be true if the bore was of consistent interior dimensions throughout it's length, but not all are.

Dang, John, you mean I got one right for a change? Purely an accident, not soon to be repeated, I'm sure. Thanks for the authoritative expansion.

You still have that drilling with the .30/30 barrel? That one looked like a peach.

North Fork Solids have multiple thin bands with the bottom of the grooves being bore diameter or thereabouts. They are made of pure copper.

From the North Fork website:

What is the purpose of the grooves?

The purpose of the grooves is twofold. First, whenever a bullet passes down the barrel, the lands of the rifling must engrave the bullet. The material that is displaced by those lands must have a place to go. In a conventional bullet with a thin jacket and a full-length lead core, the jacket and core can easily yield to the lands. In a monolithic bullet or one with a monolithic rear section, the only route of escape for the displaced material is to make the bullet longer. Considering the material in this area will not yield as easily as if there was lead underneath it, the stresses between the bullet and the barrel will exceed the sheer strength of the jacket material. This increased stress sets up a galling action, which is one of the major causes of jacket fouling. What the grooves do is to allow the material that is displaced by the rifling lands, an easy escape route. This allows the stresses between the bullet and the barrel to stay below the point at which galling (fouling) occurs.

The second advantage of the grooves on the rear section is that they allow the bullet to be more forgiving to variations in bore dimensions. The dimensions of different barrels commonly vary by plus or minus .0003”, and it is not unheard of that they can vary by more than .0010”. If you put a solid sectioned bullet down a barrel that is over standard size, you probably won’t have too much of a problem; accuracy may suffer but generally, it won’t be dangerous. Unfortunately, the reverse is not so benign. A solid sectioned bullet fired down an undersized barrel can cause dangerously high pressure spikes as well as increasing the probability of severe fouling. The grooves lessen this problem as they are designed to receive more than the standard amount of displaced material.

I've shot them through my .470NE double with no issues so far, but as others mentioned, maybe I haven't shot enough NF solids to see problems yet. I'll keep shooting them until I do. They certainly work great on Cape buffalo.

No, I sold it, due to buying a lighter and more versatile drilling from luv2safari, a scoped, hammerless Sauer 16x16/6.5x57R. After acquiring it three years ago, I found the 12x12/.30-30 wasn't going afield much at all anymore, so sent it down the road. Have owned a number of drillings and combo guns over the years, but right now the 16/6.5x57R is the only one in the safe.

I've been doing with a number of other hunting guns over the past few years. Used to have multiples of various stuff, at one time including six .30-06's and four side-by-side 12-gauge shotguns. Another example is buying a "user" rifle in the same chambering as a walnut-stocked custom rifle. Discovered I was actually using the custom rifle all the time anyway, and with multiples alwaus ended up using one more than the others, so started thinning the herd.

But I still own a number of guns that don't go hunting much anymore. They mostly get used for reloading projects, such as trying new bullets or new powders.

I don't have many, but still too many considering the limited opportunities I have. I have a real problem with seeing good stuff on Gunbroker at low prices and not getting any bids. That's how I ended up with a 1948 FN .270 and a Sako FN .30/06 at what I think were bottom of the barrel prices. Later this year I'm going to let my sons each pick something out from the pile, which should restore reason for a time. I know one of them will get my pre64, but I'm not sure what else will leave. If it's the .243 Sako, I'll have to replace it with something as I really enjoy that one.

There's a dealer in Winchester with a number of drillings in a private viewing area that I'll have to visit if I ever get really flush with cash. I've always found them fascinating.

The problem with drillings is they cover too much country!

I could easily hunt everything I normally hunt in Montana with the one I have now, especially since Bruce (luv2safari) also included a .22 Magnum insert for one of the shotgun barrels. It shoots into less than an inch at 50 yards with standard Winchester 40-grain hollow-points and solids, at velocities about like HV .22 Long Rifle ammo in a rifle. The 16-gauge barrels also will take anything from doves to geese, and the 6.5x57 has about the same ballistics as any of the other mid-range 6.5's, whether the 6.5x55 or 6.5 Creedmoor, so is plenty for all the big game in the state.

Don't tell your misses but you could reduce your inventory and use that money to take her on a cruise or elsewhere.

I promise I won't tell her before I can send an Email.



Now seriously having 1 drilling isn't a bad idea for multiple reasons. But what fun is it to have so few 'tools' to choose from. It's your 'business' after all.

Jerry

I realize you;re joking, but my situation with firearms and my "missus" is VERY different from that of most guys, partly because of what I do and partly because of who she is.

First, all the money I spend on firearms, ammo, scopes, components, hunting, etc. comes out of my business account, not the "general fund." Selling (and buying) firearms is like somebody in any other business selling and buying equipment. It wouldn't make business sense for, say, a professional photographer to sell off various cameras to take his wife on a vacation, and it doesn't make any sense for me to do the same, especially when there are always other firearms to be purchased, or other shooting stuff, or even cameras.

Second, my wife hasn't the slightest desire to go on a cruise. Instead she would rather spend money on a hunting trip, and often does, because she has her own business account for running her side of our business. Which is exactly how she (not our general fund) paid for the custom kitchen that just took three weeks to install in our house. Like my guns, it's also a business deduction, because she's not only going to use it for the cookbooks she writes, but for doing cooking videos.

Both of us are going on a waterfowl hunt in Alberta next month, also a business trip, partly to test shotguns and loads but partly for ducks and geese for the cookbook she's working on now, about sauces, rubs and marinades for wild game. We're paying for that out of our business accounts too, not the general fund, splitting the money 50/50 from both accounts. And all the shotguns we're taking (two of hers and two of mine) were also paid for out of the two business accounts.

This has caused some consternation among both friends and various retailers over the years. We'll walk into a sporting goods store and if there's a rifle (or shotgun, or occasionally a handgun) I can use for various articles and books at a good price, I'll grab it and buy it.

At first the clerks where we shop most would look nervously at Eileen when I walked up with a gun and said, "I'll take this." But eventually they learned that, unlike many wives, she not only didn't care about the money, but often was intrigued by the gun itself. In fact, she probably owns more hunting guns than the average Campfire member, and aside from possibly consulting with me about prices, she buys and sells 'em the same way I do!

John, you (and/or Eileen) apparently are good business people but also must be Olympian at picking out and motivating contractors and service folks to redo a kitchen in three weeks. Ours took nearly three months but better yet they made it seem like three years.

I'm equally lucky in my latest "domestic acquisition" if largely for different reasons. She finds retired life in America such an improvement over anything she experienced in her native land that for the most part she's content with her garden and an occasional fishing trip. The biggest problem we have right now is where we're going to put the deer meat when the killin' starts. Dang freezer's full of her garden's output.

M D & Eileen -

I'm very GLAD for both of ya. IMO a lot of folks aren't as fortunate in 'matching partners'. I'm jealous. <G>

Congrats:

Jerry

George,

I really didn't have anything to do with it. Eileen and Mary, a woman from Bozeman who acts as a consultant for kitchen redesigns, did all the contracting and scheduling. Then everybody showed up and got their job done on time, starting with the first morning when a local contractor we'd worked with before came in an tore out the old kitchen, down to the floorboards.

We did get lucky with the guy who installed the counter-tops. He's apparently good enough to be in very high demand, and Mary said it might be a week before he'd show up after the counters were installed. But he had a break in his schedule, apparently because somebody else's kitchen schedule didn't go right, and the tops were on two days after the counters went in. The old kitchen got torn out on the 3rd and we moved the pots, plates, food, etc. back in on the 21st.

John,

If ever Eileen falls out of love with that sweeeeet handling/pointing BBF of hers I want first right of refusal.


I liked your old kitchen, but...I'm old.


My purpose for my original question is I'm looking for something safe for my 6.5X57R and my 7X65R, so I can hunt deer and pigs in CA, right next door to me. I'm leaning toward the lighter Barnes banded bullets at moderate velocities.