Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

Before auto pistols were dead nuts reliable, and before they had big double stack mags, and before there were striker fired auto pistols that met both criteria, the 2.5" Model 66 was just that compared to what else was available.

ah, still is.

or buy a duplex round.
we were making these 30 years ago, a 50caliber ball from a hawkins with birdshot packed around it.
quite impressive

Agreed. The 3" round butt 13/65 is even more so.

a lot of it depends on skill level, and equipping many people is not the same as one person.
I have a friend that use to shoot probably 50k a year of handgun ammo, a lot of it in competition. He took rob leatham one time. He favors a 1911 38super by the way.
but i have seen him with a k frame, draw and hit six 8inch targets right around a second for the whole thing. Maybe a little more. it was/is pretty impressive with what one could do. if things are just right.
I have gone on road trips with him to hunt. Mostly he had a little jframe five shot. I wouldn't want to be in front of him. but he is the exception.

Yes the army did tests in 1904 to determine the best caliber for a sidearm.


thompson-Lagarde tests

Yes, and the 9mm aint it. In fact w hardball (which is all we were allowed to use even today, the Guards we have at our bases still use 9mm ball) our guys in the sand were scurrying around for old 45 out of the Crane Indiana arsenal. While it may well be a suitable caliber with modern ammo, the whole reason the FBI went to the 10MM (then downgraded to the 40 S&W aka 10mm "light" because of females) was after the infamous Miami shootout where the agents had 9mm which proved to be a failure. I believe I'l stick to 45 ACP or 357 SIG.

A civilian has different needs than LE.
I can't imagine protecting my life from someone 50 yds away. If somebody is in my house they would be within wrestling distance. Accuracy at 50 yds is not even an issue.
I don't have a radio to call for backup nor do I wear a bullet proof vest.
Rather than shoot a small caliber pistol 15 times
I would rather try to incapacitate them with a .45
with the first shot. The volley fire concept is great on TV I don't want to get involved in that kind of a gun battle.
In Minnesota we are told we need to be a "reluctant participant" otherwise we can go to jail. Most of my time is spent where the risk level is so low that I feel good carrying a J frame. If the situation gets so bad the J frame is not enough, hand me a 12 gauge.

Weren't they using Silvertips in their 9mm autos? Modern designs corrected the faults of the 9mm.

How 'bout the best of both worlds. A 3" S&W model 19

I just had an opportunity to watch the guys at Hornady run their Critical Duty ammo and a bunch of "audience" ammo through the FBI protocol test (bare gel, cloth, plywood, wallboard, steel, and glass) through FBI formula gelatin and came away rather impressed that companies can design ammo that can perform pretty evenly in jello after passing through all the different barriers. The other impressive thing was that the variations in results between 9mm, .40 and .45 were rather negligible. So, yeah, for self defense, all things being equal, the ammo you shoot the bestest and the fastest would be the better ammo to use.

None of the ammo other than the Critical Duty was as consistent, but a lot of it was close enough for me. I was fine with .45 230 grain Gold Dots fired from service length barrel and an XDs 3.3" although they technically did not "pass" all the FBI tests. Same with .40 180 grain Gold Dots out of a Glock 35. I also was fine with the standard velocity 9mm 124 Gold Dot out of a Glock 17 and a 9mm 147 grain Winchester XST out of a service length barrel, although they technically did not "pass" all 6 tests. I also was fine with a standard velocity 9mm 124 Gold Dot fired out of a S&W Shield on the clothed gelatin test, which is a standard self defense scenario.

Deer, elk, lions and bears are a different story, and wallboard, steel and windshield barrier tests don’t sound too relevant, nor do concerns about overpenetration.

There was a failure of one Winchester Silvertip. And that's questionable since the FBI didn't have any penetration requirements prior to 1986. But it was a very convenient scapegoat for the FBI who kinda had two guys kinda hand them their arses. By today's standards that 115 grain Silvertip in in adequate. But now with modern 124+P and 147's the 9mm routinely out-penetrates the .45 ACP.

The 9mm makes sense for the FBI, but it doesn't mean it makes sense for everyone. I still carry a .45 ACP.

It makes sense if you are doing it "for the women"... I just read and talk face to face w guys that were THERE on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they tell me the 9 SUCKS. Not to mention JWP's link above.. 9mm is for girls...

that is just about it. forget it only holds six rounds, rarely would one want more, and with that 3, it ain't gonna take a lot of time to put another six in.

A lot of people keep repeating that the 9 out penetrates the 45, but it is not true. I shoot both and I have teste 124 grain +P against the 220 critical duty and the 9 does not out penetrate the 45 and the 45 leaves a larger diameter hole no question.
Both in wood and steel the 9 did not out penetrate the 45.

Bullets have helped perform better both and the 45 didn't shrink.

Kind of interesting in talking to a green beanie a few years ago having spent time in both places. He said the issues with the beretta's was keeping them clean and the mags, so he went to a hi power, then spent the last four months with a glock 17. It worked all the time. And they were not using ball ammo. He said those jacketed rounds worked just fine.
A good friend of mine, marine, spent a lot of time on door knocker duty in both places. They would routinely replace ball on leaving the wire, and replaced with winchester jacketed stuff bought in the bazaars. Worked just fine. Then replaced with ball when they came back in. He is really a .45 guy too by the way.

I have never seen a .45 ACP out-penetrae a 147 9mm, and I've shot into several different mediums. I don't know about the 124gr +P other than test reports I've seen because the +P doesn't much interest me. So our experiences differ on the 147 specifically. I've had more than one 147 out penetrate a .44 mag 240 grain JHP.

FYI, one thing the Hornady guy said was that the twist rate on 9mm military guns was 1 in 16 to get the ball ammo to try to yaw before striking while the optimum twist rate in handguns shooting 9mm is 1 in 10, which is what Glocks use in that caliber (and .357 and .40).

Sweet! Both yours?

I didn't mention 147 grain because I haven't gotten around to testing it adequately.