Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are Atheists more honest than Christians?

Evidently, and so was Pauls Id say.

Hard ground, etc, I'd say.

I do my best to never push, shove, shout or threaten my faith on anyone. If anyone here feels I have then I honestly and sincerely apologise.

However, when someone posts a statement on Christianity I will respond with my beliefs. If I were to sit around a campfire enjoying the company of those here posting on this thread of the lack of belief in God I would not be the one to bring the subject up for conversation but that does not mean I do not have concern for them.

To use an example, I consider Antelope_Sniper a friend. We do not think the same on this subject so unless he asks I don't generally respond with an answer. Now that in no way means I do not think he is missing the boat so to speak and I do feel real concern for him because in my mind I believe in a afterlife and if I am right and he is wrong the consequences I would never wish on him. On the other hand, if he is right and I am just living a life in an unfounded faith the consequences will amount to nothing.

As I stated above in an earlier reply I chose to follow Christ. No one made me do it, I did it because my life sucked big time and I had no inner peace. I chose to try something different and from almost that moment on my life has been much better. No, the hurts and pains did not go away, neither did the hard times, but I felt much better equipped to handle those hard times. As Peter said to the lame man (Acts 3:6) silver and gold have I none, but such as I have give I thee —. I did not become rich in the things of the world. The Ruger 45 LC I have wanted since 1973 did not magically appear under my pillow. My bank did not call telling me I had to transfer some money because I had more in my accounts than the FDIC insurance covered nor did Publishers Clearing House knock on my door. But in spite of all than a peace and contentment have enabled me to persevere. Through the tough times, injuries aches, pains, low income and for the four and a half years of no income we have never gone without a roof over our heads and enough food on out table to share with those who may not. Today I suffer from daily bouts of dizzy spells bad enough that if I don't sit down or better yet lay down I would fall down. I have back pain the doctors can do nothing about. At 66 years old I have the joint pains than most my age know all to well. But with all that my life is pretty darned good. I am at peace and I am content. I choose to thank God for that.

From the OP: "In the end, both atheists and Christians have the same evidence for God/gods...none. The Christian chooses to believe anyway and tries to convince you it's fact. The atheists chooses no belief and doesn't try to convince you of anything.

Who's more honest?"

I don't think it is a matter of honesty. Both are sincere in what they believe. (And some atheists do try to convince you that they are right.)

I believe there is evidence of God, but not proof. There is a difference between the two. The evidence is in the Bible. The evidence is also chronicled everyday on this forum. The evil deeds of human beings are discussed everyday here. Our society is deteriorating before our very eyes. Looking back over my lifetime, the increase in depravity and violence is undeniable. Also undeniable is the fact that this moral decline has taken place during the time in which liberals have done their utmost to expunge God from public discourse. For me, this is evidence that when God is ignored, mankind lacks any other moral authority to guide it. Yes, Christians have moral shortcomings just as others do. We are not perfect, but we are trying to do what we think God would have us to do. And when we do fail, we are forgiven by God even if not by men.

If there was proof of God, faith would not be required. Evidence that is conclusive to some is not enough to convince others. So we seem to have a hung jury, as has always been the case. The proof will come after our last breath. Glad I don't have anything to worry about.

Scott,

I hope this finds you well.

You made a reference that if in the end, your faith was misplaced it would cost you nothing. Often I would take issue with such a statement, but in your case, it would probably be close to true. I see you as someone who uses his faith as a philosophical guide, without making extravagant investments into it. I don't imagine you as someone who went on a two year mission to some South American schit hole to to try and convert Catholics to Christianity, no someone who give a large portion of his income to some mega church, nor spends many hours each day praying to someone who does not answer.

I see you more as a pragmatic Christian who faces his daily challenges in a very practical way. You have people you need to take care of, and that woods not going to chop itself, so you make it happen.

When people follow scriptures (from any religion) too fanatically, or to literally, it can result in real costs for them in this world, so their faith becomes a gamble between what they've sacrificed in this world, vs. what they hope to gain in the next. Fortunately I don't see you as the kind of man to be lead to far down that road.

How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?

Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?

The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.

And then you have the Timothy McVeighs and Terry Nichols of the world.

You mean Paul's bout with sunstroke?

Not very convincing.

and after all this sincere and from the heart discussion, not a breath of discussion about Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed and a myriad of others being of the space alien genre come here to teach humans how best to live on a terrestrial planet, while breathing oxygen and possessing consciousness.

without consciousness would we still be able to speak about god?

but where does consciousness come from? anybody ever thought about it?

do unconscious animals serve the same god as the rest of us?

if not, why not?

Hillary was raised Methodist. She was a member of the Senate Prayer group, and regularly attends Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington.

Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox Christian.

That pair belongs to you, not the Atheist.

lol. word on the street is that the Russian Orthodox Church is staunchly behind the Vlad man.

but the question remains about consciouslness, specifically human consciousness and why and how can there be so many different gods over the aeons?

why don't we just settle on one? jesus mohammed, Buddha,krishna, ganesh, Great Spirit, et.al. it doesn't matter all that much, as long as oxygen remains in the air. isn't one god about as good as another?

Your claim that a believer can never become a non-believer is just factually wrong. It happens all the time. This is evidenced by the NON's being the fastest growing group in the US. as it relates to religion. You can also examine the decline of religion in Europe. The facts do not match your statement.

As for why do Atheist engage believers in debate, it is to influence minds, and correct misconceptions. Think of all the folks on this forum who don't seen to understand the modern Atheist. Did you know the difference between an Atheist and an Anti-theist before I explained it?

Even if I don't change your mind, I can help you to become better informed and at least have a better understanding of the Atheist point of view.

Good day Gus. In regard to this comment above, you should probably just keep it in "first person singular."

If I committed a logical fallacy, please name the specific fallacy, and explain where I am wrong.

... and ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jim Jones, Saul Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Attila, et al.

What's your point?

You're going to cite The Crusades next I suppose?

Historically speaking, who has been perpetrated more mass genocide on this planet than any others ... I mean if we're talking sheer numbers?

Religious people ... or non religious people?

And what were the first steps to those non-religious people, those non-believers, the atheists ... what were their first steps undertaken before the mass genocides were perpetrated upon the people?

Antelope, none of those things make either of them a Christian.

I don't even know what your comment means. but probably my daughter does, being a ph.d in language arts. but, she might not know either?

besides listening to audibles in the background, I'm attempting to offer plausible discussion.

my belief is that the combined greek & Egyptian theology is so in conflict with the Hebraic traditions that we might not ever find common agreement and solid ground.

without considering the input of extraterrestrials as important components of humans advance forward we are leaving out important details of our past.

from moving forward from cave man to visiting the moon, Mars and beyond is no small detail that shouldn't be overlooked.

"Your claim that a believer can never become a non-believer is just factually wrong".

You generally don't deliberately mis-quote me.

I'm disappointed in you.

You read the "Supernatural method of conviction" part of my post and are smart enough to recognize it as being central to my statement, so you omit it in order to score debating points, I suppose.

What was the point of bringing in Hillary and Putin (fallaciously, I might add)?

As for who has killed more - the religious win by miles and miles.

First steps of atheists? I suppose across the kitchen or living room floor like most of the rest of us. I don't know what your point is at all, but I'm sure you will tell us.

George - cut the dodging and own up. \

This is the usual hilarious 24 hr convo. 3 Cheers to Mojohand for creating it.

AS posted:

How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?

Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?

The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”


This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”

John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”

Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”


There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.

TF

Well, maybe and maybe not.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord." will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

TF