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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908 |
I can bet you one thing for sure, if someone is shooting at you with a rife , the 9mm, 40, or 45 handgun is going to feel small in your hands. How large or small will they feel if being shot at by a pistol? A shotgun?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304 |
"I believe the accuracy/speed difference was determined by having a wide range of shooters shoot courses of fire with a Glock in a .40, and a Glock in a 9mm."
...I guess they just had to waste the ammo to prove what every halfway knowledgeable firearms instructor already knew...
...but again we have the tail wagging the dog. IPSC, IDPA and Qualification Courses have nothing to do with gun fighting. There is a whole bunch of officers who have been in gun fights with both a .40 and 9mm Glock. What I want to know is ON THE STREET in comparable shootings what is the hit percentage of the two. My belief is that there isn't going to be any. LE still has the same target shooting mentality they have had from the 1930s. In some segments it is getting better but overall not much.
Too may people are worrying about whether or not an officers "qualifies"...they should be worried about whether or not they live through a gun fight without also injuring a innocent party...
Hi_Vel...thanks for the nice words... That's a damn good point. I used to work with our local SWAT team as the medic, so I've shot with and trained with a lot of cops; they generally shoot for chit...even the SWAT guys (they were better with their MP5's). 16 years on the street as a medic, I've treated a few dozen guys shot by cops, some by the entry team I was assigned to. Our city cops carried Sig 226's in 9mm. The County guys carried a variety of guns, most were .40's and 9's, with a spattering of .45's. Actual hits on humans, I never noticed much of a difference. (admittedly this is VERY anecdotal evidence). Both departments were FIRM subscribers to the truism that there is absolutely no additional paperwork for additional rounds; and just shot the chit out of the bad guys. With one exception, all the other LE shot patients I've had were shot AT LEAST 7 times. That's hits, and the number of misses in my town were surprisingly low. Kinda funny, I could wax their arses all day long at the range, but when it got real, suddenly those guys could all shoot...I never could reconcile that after seeing their training, but it just was. Kevin as many jobs as you say you have held over the course of your posting here on the fire you would have had to be 3 people. Which is why I just call you the Walter Mitty of the fire...carry on...
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,846
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,846 |
...Also, if you're so inexperienced as a handgun shooter, that the biggest round you can effectively handle is a 9mm, you have no business using a hand gun for defense purposes. It doesn't take that much training to become proficient with any semi-auto pistol... So if my wife/daughter/elderly mother/grandfather etc. etc.is effective with a 9mm but but not so much with the larger calibers they should just dump the pistol all together,be handed a 12 ga. pump and told to suck it up? Got it.
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?"
_Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience."
- Alexander Hamilton
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
I like the band camp stories!
I am always amazed by people who are so concerned about ammo cost. If you are talking about saving your life, isn't that worth the cost no matter what it is?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Band Camp
I know a cop who shoots 5,000 rds per year of 45 acp.
5,000 rds of 9mm and 5,000 rds of
.357 magnum.
I was chatting him up at a bowling pin match and he mentioned that while making a routine traffic stop the driver suddenly decided to flee and ran over him with the car. I asked him how many rounds he fired. His answer was None!
Draw your own conclusions.
whelennut
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
I like the band camp stories!
I am always amazed by people who are so concerned about ammo cost. If you are talking about saving your life, isn't that worth the cost no matter what it is?
Yes. Cost should be of no concern. Keep paying your taxes. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245 |
I like the band camp stories!
I am always amazed by people who are so concerned about ammo cost. If you are talking about saving your life, isn't that worth the cost no matter what it is?
Same thing I tell folks that ask for my opinion on a 'CHEAP' concealed carry, personal protection, or 'gun for my Wife' weapon.  I ask, you don't think much about you or your Wife's ass [life] do ya?
Trump Won!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Taurus gives me the dry heaves.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,245 |
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,652
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,652 |
JFC, let's add another chapter to the Gibson Chronicles.
I expect one day I'll log on and find you giving advice on the Gladius, after years of working with a Roman Legion.
Travis
Come on, now, Travis. You know perfectly well that Kevin has been completely consistent about his background from day one.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692 |
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
Didn't the FBI have the 10mm cartridge developed because the 9mm was inadequate? Miami shoot-out?
Also, if you're so inexperienced as a handgun shooter, that the biggest round you can effectively handle is a 9mm, you have no business using a hand gun for defense purposes. It doesn't take that much training to become proficient with any semi-auto pistol.
And if you need 17 rounds of ammo, because 14 or 15 isn't enough to get the job done, you're really not proficient enough to use a handgun for self defense either. Dude with insight like that you should be making self defense videos on youtube
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
Threads like this are always good for entertainment..
For the record, I carry a 9mm, by choice, as a duty weapon. I have the choice between 9mm, 40, 45, or 357 Sig...and I still chose the 9mm.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,130
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,130 |
Ah s h I t, they're all good these days, especially in a Glock.
I had to stir the pot, lol
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304 |
Kevin must be related to Brian Williams. ![[Linked Image]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/Jimmyp50/image.jpg2_zpsyzfqqszb.jpg)
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,218
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,218 |
Taurus gives me the dry heaves. Friends don't let Friends buy a Taurus 
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,130
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,130 |
Taurus has some dam good concepts, I will give them that. But their QC sucks. That Tracker 44 mag I had was a nice gun but it had some issues.
Live is to short to pizz around with them anymore.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
And some laughed when I said Kevin Gibson was my favorite handgun writer.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,304 |
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,661
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,661 |
And some laughed when I said Kevin Gibson was my favorite handgun writer. And me with nothing smart-azz to say. Pay no attention to that Gibson guy...he's an azz-hole.
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