Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are Atheists more honest than Christians?

I didn't start either of the recent Christian threads.

It has everything to do with it, that's why you won't answer the question.

I would say, "He wore a police uniform for 40 years."

"A wolf in sheep's clothing."

[i]AS,

You may want to consider that not all who say they are born of God are truly that. I have met Catholics who described themselves as born again. I have met some in evangelical denominations that later admitted they were not born of God; ie "born again"

I may call myself a retired police chief but that does not make me one. I would be "false," as was Judas. It seems to me that the other disciples did not recognize Judas for what he was. Jesus however did. Jesus saw his heart.

You seem to choose other ways to define what a "Christian" is but in fact, Jesus is the one who either 'knows you' or not. That will be the final judgment of "who is a Christian" or not.


TF

btw... I do not "know" but I suspect that Hitler was a "Christian" like Judas "was."[/quote]

Let's deal with your silly strawman. Lets say for a moment you really were a Police Chief. Now there's another individual who wore a police uniform for 40 years, and was the head of a police department for 20 of those 40 years. It's discovered that this Chief was corrupt. Are you now going to say, "he's not a real police Chief"? Or would it be more honest for you to admit there are issues within the Police service and work to correct them.

In some ways your semantics go back to the OP's original question about the honesty of Christians as it relates to apologetics. [/quote] [/i]


Nope, you are simply not addressing the issue. You obfuscate and divert. Avoidance on your part.

TF

Of course, there are instances wherein I have come up with a wrong answer or poor judgment. On this particular matter I have done a fulsome search, seeking understanding and answers for what - to me - are the seminal matters/issues pertaining to a human life. Along the way it has become clear that one simply cannot depend or rest upon the reasonings, calculations and proclamations of other humans on such important stuff. (If that seems odd, simply re-read this thread.)

I have sought and found, asked and received, knocked and been welcomed in. Having been told that few will find this way, my earlier expressed wish includes many loved ones and many others. You did not ask how one gains such peace and freedom nor did you seek any understanding of the quest. Your question was very limited and simply consequential - "what if you are wrong" - so my reply is similarly limited.

I do not profess to know the answer to your personal question, in part because the nature of the alternative is very broad (beyond my human scope) and in part because I have no way to know the focus or scope of your "what if ?" It might be interesting to know a person's version of such an answer, but now it is of no consequence in my case. I also think that you do not know the answer to your "what if" question.

Right or wrong, a person in my chosen circumstance will have enjoyed a large measure of peace and freedom as a human being and will have been able to live with unbounded hope and glorious expectations for eternity. That seems to be fairly good when compared with the way others appear to be living as humans, and in consideration of their eternal expectations. Color me grateful.

Now, what do you think will be my lot if I am wrong? And, what will be your lot?

And yet you're using it to separate people into in & out groups a lot in this thread.

You being inconsistent with your professed belief system?

Maybe i'll blame God tonight for christians like stalin and religious folks like isis and sinners like us and give Him a good cussin for letting any of us sinners breath.

The person who professes belief in a system 180 degrees opposite of his formerly professed position has acted.

You obfuscate incessantly. I answered your question, but it had nothing to do whatever with your demonstrably false assertion that atheists are less divisive than religious folk. Then you sidestepped by theorizing atheism rather than recognizing your personal inconsistency.

Again, the assertion itself is divisive, suggesting that atheism is qualitatively better than religion. Atheism = "in", religion = "out".

The only "force" I'm using is the force of reason.

[/quote]

Here is something to reason on........


It would seem that any Man who is wise would intelligently reason that there is a fair amount of evidence pointing to a possibility of a God.


A wise and Just God would provide sufficient evidence to at least warrant investigation.

A wise and Just God would also provide validation apon investigation.

The possibility of our oweing our existence to a creator in light of a fair amount of evidence would at least seem to warrant investigating just out of the possibility that a good man may be entitled to show gratitude for ones life.

It would also seem fittingly Just that if one is not inclined to seek the possibility of gratitude that may be owed in light of the fact there is so much evidence!!!! Perhaps God could rightously and justly not include such ones in a Kingdom to which they have shown no interest.



Shod

Always amazed me to hear certified athiests holler GD upon busting their hammer on a thumb.

Geez Antelope Sniper. You sure spend a lot of time trying to prove something does not exist. Why? What do you care? Deep inside you know very well God exists. If I am wrong and no life , no God after I die I loose nothing. If you are wrong and there is a hell for people that refuse to believe in Christ as a savior then you loose everything. I can't tell ya how many atheists I have come across that are so hell bent to prove they are right when there is nothing for them to gain except the self satisfaction they tried to make a person stumble in their faith. If you succeed, again , you gain nothing. I don't get the motive for your intentions.

Curdog: And when your reasoning fails in one discussion, you quit that one and start up another one. Or set up a straw man by mis-stating another man's statement.

AS - If only your contention about "force" were true, what seem to be your considerable knowledge and talents would be working well for you. Unfortunately, your usual and continued tactics seem to cause quite a number of thoughtful folks to tire of the insincerity. I think that you can do better and would like to see that.

Cur is not perfect, but strives for the lost to be found, and the found to be saved, not of his own accord, but because of the spirit the Spirit has imparted in him.

In the end, both atheists and Christians have the same evidence for God/gods...none. The Christian chooses to believe anyway and tries to convince you it's fact. The atheists chooses no belief and doesn't try to convince you of anything.

Who's more honest?"


I think the question was asked and answered by the OP.

First he makes an emphatic claim: ...both atheists and Christians have the same evidence for God/gods...none.

Then, after having made an emphatic/authoratative claim he says: "The atheists chooses no belief...here's the kicker...doesn't try to convince you of anything.

This he says after he makes the authoratative claim. He flatters himself in saying that he is not trying to convice you of anything. However, this can not be an honest statement because of his atheist dogma that preceeded it.

Oh Georgia...

Facts exist independent of motive.

It is a FACT that there is no OBJECTIVE proof of a god. A claim that hasn't been disproved yet by the hundreds of responses to this thread (or in the thousands of years of human history...) Neither I, nor AS, (nor any of the rational people who posted) have tried to convince you that there is no God. That would be trying to disprove his existence. Even more impossibly, it would be trying to use facts to overcome personal prejudice and confirmation bias...ain't gonna happen.

The burden of proof and need to convince lies squarely on those making supernatural propositions...proof which has not been forthcoming (obviously).

By your response and many others, I'm going to guess many didn't even read the OP or literally don't have the faculties to comprehend it. The links provided made it quite clear the atheist position yet the religious folk here continue to make straw men to 'bolster' their untenable position.

I also stated outright what I thought of faith and those who held to it...both in the OP and my responses to Scott and Dwayne. And please bone up on your vocabulary...you can't have dogma Ina system without belief...(SMH)

"The burden of proof and need to convince lies squarely on those making supernatural propositions...proof which has not been forthcoming (obviously)."

My formal education was very limited, so maybe you can enlighten me on what you just said.

If a proposition COULD be proven, it would no longer qualify as "supernatural", would it?

Put in a more direct way...... ain't you FOS in this instance?

The amount of logical fallacies, projection, straw men, confirmation bias and attempts to make the subjective, objective, on this thread are mind boggling...

I'd be lying if I said I didn't know the usual suspects would show up to make my point for me, though...

I'm a working man and don't have time to keep up with all the responses so a big thank you to Antelope for holding down Fort Logic and Reason!


And a huge kudos to Scott and Dwayne for their refreshing honesty and true faith. With the younger generation and the post-modern (or perhaps the post-post modern) scene, I am seeing more and more reject the false certainty of the 'know' crowd and their preoccupation with stultifying theological differences and going forth in true faith and compassion toward all.

Yep, the fact is the Jews regained their homeland.

The fact is they will not lose it again.

The fact is all nations of the world will turn against them (as we just did with the iranian nuclear deal).

The fact is they will not again lose their homeland.

The fact is, good will become evil.

The fact is He will return again.

Thank you for making my original point!

You lack proof so you MUST by default resort to the 'supernatural' all the while failing to prove the supernatural exists! You then attribute that which you can't prove to the supernatural all the while asserting that it is YOUR version of the unproven supernatural that is the correct one!


I can't believe that so many can't grasp this simple point. It's circular reasoning at its 'finest'.

Rational and reasoned thinking, when divorced from any Absolute Truths, are responsible for some of the most abhorrent actions on Earth.

Such as killing babies and selling the body parts.

Unchecked by a belief in a Higher Power, the human mind can "Rationalize" anything as being correct.

The God of Reason brings no comfort to a dying Atheist.