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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,701 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,701 Likes: 47 |
Shooting critters in the legs and guts is no different than posting smilies and +1 to get your post count up on the Campfire...
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Shooting critters in the legs and guts is no different than posting smilies and +1 to get your post count up on the Campfire...
+1 Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,352 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,352 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,352 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,352 Likes: 1 |
Also a 22 derringer in you pocket is better if you need it. than you new glock 40 left at home. ( in my opinion)
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
260rem is a douchebag, that become completely apparent in some of his 'anti-gun' posts. This just makes it better for the others to see yet again.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
If a cartridge / bullet combination fails to penetrate deeply enough from any angle needed to hit the vitails then it failed. If the bullet reaches the heart and the advasary continues on, instead of instant incapacitation that is simply the difference from one to another and no fault of the cartridge load combination, because it did the damage. This applies to rifle, shotgun and handgun.
Basically you're setting up a false paradigm. The goal should always be to kill the animal quickly and humanely regardless of penetration. The two basic schools of thought here are penetration vs. expansion. If your goal is penetration and everything else be damned, then you're probably going to have some failures to kill quickly in your quest for 100% success on penetration. Likewise, if your goal is only expansion, then you are probably going to have some kill-failures in your attainment of the expansion goal due to not attaining enough penetration for that expansion. What this probably illustrates is that goals of penetration and expansion are not 100% reliable arbiters of killing game. And again, killing game and stopping a person from fighting are two different things even though you seem to not differentiate between them. All you're doing is once again stating your preference for penetration over everything else and anybody who has read here very long knows that.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,866 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,866 Likes: 5 |
Penetration is not all it's 'cracked up' to be.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Penetration is not all it's 'cracked up' to be. A lot of chicks would disagree.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,246 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,246 Likes: 2 |
The operative word being "goal", something to aspire to, rather than an absolute.
My "goal" is to kill things with one shot and it is achieved better than 90% of the time, so I'd give myself an "A" in that column. However, killing game from a solid rest in a cut corn or bean field is usually pretty easy, really more an exercise in preparation and "shooting" skill rather than "hunting" skill. Plus, all of my hunting is done on private land where there is no hunting pressure and in a State that allows each hunter to purchase two antlered deer tags and, in some of the GMUs where I hunt, as many antlerless deer tags as a hunter wishes to purchase. I only shoot two kinds of antlered deer, trophies and culls. I don't shoot bucks with little racks, unless the antlers are damaged and there appears to be a genetic flaw that should be removed for the good of the herd. Because of that philosophy, I only punch my antlered deer tags about half the time, maybe even a little less than 50%.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,057 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,057 Likes: 7 |
jwp475, You "nailed it"! The bullet should have very high percentage of success reaching vital organs from any angle with a bullet of, adequate sectional density,good bullet construction,impact velocity, and correct shot geometry(bullet path in line with vitals). If the bullet cannot fullfill these requirements, we actually have two failures.The bullet (thru no fault of it's own) and operator error(improper bullet selection for application)! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,676
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,676 |
JWP did nail it, penetration is so important as long as the bullet worked in passage. There is fact to this that beauty queens do not believe thinking "energy dump" is real. The space station is still seeing my bullets in orbit after dropping deer in their tracks. A Texas heart shot should exit the chest. Makes a mess of course but the 6" of penetration from the wrong bullet is a loss.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
If a cartridge / bullet combination fails to penetrate deeply enough from any angle needed to hit the vitails then it failed. If the bullet reaches the heart and the advasary continues on, instead of instant incapacitation that is simply the difference from one to another and no fault of the cartridge load combination, because it did the damage. This applies to rifle, shotgun and handgun.
I've had and seen satisfactory results using the lighter weight monos with a few deer and pig kills, even testing on 22 lb three quarters frozen freezer burnt turkeys. They have ALL provided enough penetration to completely penetrate a mans chest from any angle, that being said, all remaining mags I have on my person are loaded with the heaviest for caliber FMJ flat point bullets that are also loaded to shoot to the sights with the lightweight mono hp's. Also, the small meplat on the fmj-fp bullets provide straight line penetration [haven't been able to turn one in test media] and a bit bigger than bullet diameter wound channels, a win win in my small mind.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
If a bullet reaches the vitals and doesn't incapacitate, it has failed as surely as one that doesn't reach the vitals and also fails to incapacitate.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,826 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,826 Likes: 16 |
The point of this post? They are consistent blather, over and over again. Ask how poster Ken elsewhere managed to kill big chitt with puny jacketed bullets.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
The point of this post? They are consistent blather, over and over again. Ask how poster Ken elsewhere managed to kill big chitt with puny jacketed bullets. lolol
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
If a bullet reaches the vitals and doesn't incapacitate, it has failed as surely as one that doesn't reach the vitals and also fails to incapacitate. Explain how a bullet that reaches the vitals leaving a quarter size hole through the heart will fail to incapacitate.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
The same applies to self defense situations as well as hunting.
If a bullet reaches the vitals and doesn't incapacitate, it has failed as surely as one that doesn't reach the vitals and also fails to incapacitate. Explain how a bullet that reaches the vitals leaving a quarter size hole through the heart will fail to incapacitate. You're the one who referenced such failures in your original post on this thread. I'd really rather you explained it, that being the case, if you feel like it needs to be explained. Otherwise, what is this thread even about?
Last edited by EthanEdwards; 08/30/15.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,548 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,548 Likes: 3 |
It's about penetration versus the Pressure Wave Fairy, Ethan.
Everybody who's Anybody knows the Pressure Wave Fairy:
Flutters along ahead of your handgun bullet, Through the sleeve 12th Street Dog's leather jacket & tensed forearm, Through his jacket again, And the stolen credit cards and bag of weed in the breast pocket, Crashes through 3" of well nourished & conditioned pectorals and ribs, (courtesy of your state prison system) And once inside, the Pressure Wave Fairy Whips out his magic pink feather duster, and Jack-slaps a honkin' big pressure wave up through Dog's brain Knockin' him senseless and rendering him incapacitated!
Me? I'll be over there behind the dumpster with three magazines of hardball, trying not to laugh.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
Y'all do realize that you don't have to post in threads where you disagree with the basic premise, don't you?
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