Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns ...now NYPD is down to 1.19%

Can't be, cops are all schitty shots. We hear it here all the time from folks who shoot paper alot that never miss

Not uncommon

I can't even count how many 45 rounds I have cause the guys gave it to me. Same goes for 357 Sig ammo

We got 300 rounds of duty ammo and 1200 round of range ammo yearly. If we needed more we just asked

I believe more than 600 rounds were fired by uniformed personnel in the North Hollywood shootout.

Based on everything I have read, round counts tend to climb when people run and shoot back.




Travis

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that according to "experts" here who never miss the paper target they shoot at. Cops are all bad shots

I know.



Clark

To be fair how much of NYC'S population are "Gun people"


I've often wondered if it isn't so much that lots of cops aren't "gun" people, but more that shooting becomes too much of a reminder of work and most guys find a hobby that puts them as far away from the job as possible

Could very well be.

It'd be so much simpler if everyone else here was a reserve green Beret

The only next logical step would be to take their handguns away entirely.

It worked so well for the British "Bobbies"? RIGHT???

At least, if you took their handguns away from the NYCPD, the general law abiding population would be safer. The article makes no mention of where those 84 slugs all eventually landed.

You must be one of the guys who never misses his stationary paper target

That's exactly what I am told by the blue I know.


One has told me that drawing their gun is the absolute last resort because of the avalanche of 'ish that ensues...

Pretty much

There were scores of people I delay with that I would have been completely justified in shooting, but didn't

Likely that way for 99.9% of cops. Contrary to what cursor and company want you to believe

Not all New York City cops are bad shots, But most are. My brother was a New York City police officer from 1982 to 2006. 18 of those years he was a detective, Street crime unit, Robbery squad, homicide unit, joint terrorist task force. He worked Brooklyn North, East Flatbush ( West Indians The original Jamaican posses ) he was involved in seven shootouts on the books, out of seven he had four hits three DOA. they were all up close and personal. A running gun fight is totally different then a static gunfight. They were all with revolvers, Smith & Wesson model 10 and colt detective special. he always carried two guns. In 92 he was issued a Glock 19 but he still carried his Colt detective special in his waistband ( Mexican Carry). when he knew he was going after a bad guy he always carried his model 10 he shot it better than the 19 and you could always use it as a club, which he did frequently! You can't do that with a 19. there are so many circumstances involved, some days you have a good day some days you have a bad day:)

You seem to have a bit of difficulty recognizing the sarcasm in the first two lines of my previous post.

First off, any criticism is aimed squarely at the Mayor, the Police Commissioner, and the rest of the policy makers. They set the tone for the Dept. They discourage the rank and file from becoming proficient with the tools of their trade.

That said, whatever your trade may be, if it involves tools which deliver deadly force, it behooves one to become proficient with that tool.

If you drive a truck, you better drive it in a manner which does not endanger the public.

If you work in medicine you better do your job, so that you do not cause harm to your patients.

And if you carry a gun on your hip, one would think you should have a moral imperative to learn to use it in a manner which is safe to the general public. Even if management should discourage such a mindset.

As to the last paragraph of my post, I will let you attempt to tell us that cops poorly trained in marksmanship never hit an innocent bystander when attempting to shoot a felon.

Does not a NYCPD shooter OWN that bullet until it comes to its final resting place?

While I have never been involved in combat, I am a smart enough hunter to hold my fire until I have a very high likelihood of hitting my target, and to ensure that I have a safe back stop.

It seems that is a mindset which would work well in police work, if not military combat where suppressive fire is a common tactic.

Nice to have somebody like RJM here to tell us how it really is being a cop.
I understand that no Kalifornia police agency will hire anyone who has been in any of the military special forces units. LAPD and other departments will not hire ex Marines.
Why ? They have been deemed "too aggressive" and "too prone to shoot."
When I was in high school and going to college, there was no interest in CCW by private citizens. If you went to a range to shoot, everybody shot at 25 and 50 yds. at the handgun ranges.
Nowadays, guys like me, who like to shoot at "long" ranges like 15 and 25 yds. are regarded as odd. That's because everybody practices at 7-10 yds.
When I was in my teens and 20's, all of the sporting goods stores sold guns. None of them had bars on their windows and alarms.
Nowadays, in the San Fransico Bay Area, there are very few gun stores. And all of them are heavily fortified.
Nice. This is what "change" has done for us. E

Yes, it does sound like a very "mobile" gun fight but if you saw some of the pictures there were a lot of holes in parked cars. NYC isn't the desert, regardless of the incoming fire, which will take an act of God to hit you, suppression fire in a city just isn't a good idea.

Anyone know how long the incident lasted?

As I have said in some other posts, gun fighting isn't an "ability", it is an attitude. You don't have to be a super shooter to be a gun fighter and I have known some super shooters who were not. 99% of the officers I knew who had been in gun fights were not "gun people" and rarely practiced between qualifications. But they had the attitude so when the time came they didn't fall apart or run...they stood and took care of the job without injuring anyone else...

Bob

Allard was the 1982 National Civilian Pistol Champion; Cirillo shot and competed in PPC for training. Both were initially recruited from the ranks of the NYPD Pistol Team. Allard was the firearms/tactics instructor for the SOU and personally selected each candidate, based on his scores shooting the old Police "L" course, which is fired one-handed with a revolver.

As far as the hit ratio on suspects go, this one was somewhat low, as it was a running gun battle with the suspect shooting back (makes a difference sometimes). All the cops fired one magazine at the suspect. All were sure of their background. The NYPD hit ratio overall has been rising steadily over the last few years; aberrations like this shooting will occur, despite all the calls for "more training" by the uninformed. The NYPD range at Rodman's Neck outside the Bronx is going 24-7, qualifying 35,000 cops (2 times yearly). Also included is shotgun and subgun work, plainclothes qual, academy students, gun repair, bomb detail, etc. Juggling the equivalent of more than two Army infantry divisions that need to train constantly is quite a logistical feat. Police work doesn't revolve around gun-handling skills; it's important, but only a small portion of doing a good job and finishing your tour in one piece and your career intact.

Two or three points that most don't consider, or care about:
1. In a real gunfight, you don't pick your "scenario", unlike most of the shooters here at their weekly range practice.

2. Lots of rounds available in a gunfight is always good; you keep shooting until the bad guy gives up or dies. You take the shot you're offered, good or bad. Two of the cops in this shooting were highly experienced distinguished marksmen. Good shooters don't always win the day with a well-executed head shot from 50 meters.

3. No one but the suspect was injured; it was a good day for the citizens, cops and the NYPD. Cops won. This incident will be analyzed and critiqued all the way up to Chief level. Lessons will be learned and implemented. That's how it's done in a large organization.
Bob

a long time ago, in a different life and age, i use to shoot against/with all kinds of popo, from highway patrol, county, city, etc. And i was exposed to training per the respective agencies. Some of it kept me snickering. On the county we practiced exercises out to about 50yards. Highway patrol thought a long range shot was ten yards.
We were all using revolvers too, which dates me.
There were some real good pistolero's, most not so much.
What was funny was a number of years later my wife was taking a ccw renewal course which had life fire. She is just a little class A retentive about stuff like this. She was complaining about her groups, having outshot almost all firing that day, and the instructor who was a LT on the county s.o., came up and said he wished half his men could shoot as well as she could.
We didn't at the time, even then, just shoot at paper targets. There were sessions of all kinds of live fire.
I could buy ammo for about 1.50 a box of 38specials, and it wasn't unusual to burn up 500 to 1000 rounds a month. I wasn't the only one doing that.
I wonder how many today do that. I have seen some practice targets punched by some of the local county's guys, i thought they were using a shotgun.
What that story tells me is lack of training, training, and more training and firearms proficiency.
RJM reminded me of an instructo i had, who had faced down more than a few. He said an awful lot of it was attitude, and being able to control the nerves. If you got into it, you had to assume you were going to leak blood, but you were going to win at any cost. The ones that mostly got my attention were not very loud, but were soft spoken men. They just knew what they were doing.

All I know is less training is seldom the right approach to anything.

there are a couple of guys on here that like to shoot bunnies with 1911's. My dad was a county guy way back when. He used to like to pop running jack rabbits, also use to practice shooting the heads off quail. With a handgun.
I have a habit upon seeing popo to look at what they are carrying. I remember running into a cochise county deputy a few years ago down south, and he was packing this weathered ol 1911. I told him i figured he probably knew how to use it, as apposed to one of the new hi cap polymer guns. He just grinned.