Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns ...now NYPD is down to 1.19%

Nice to have somebody like RJM here to tell us how it really is being a cop.
I understand that no Kalifornia police agency will hire anyone who has been in any of the military special forces units. LAPD and other departments will not hire ex Marines.

You seem to have a bit of difficulty recognizing the sarcasm in the first two lines of my previous post.

First off, any criticism is aimed squarely at the Mayor, the Police Commissioner, and the rest of the policy makers. They set the tone for the Dept. They discourage the rank and file from becoming proficient with the tools of their trade.

That said, whatever your trade may be, if it involves tools which deliver deadly force, it behooves one to become proficient with that tool.

If you drive a truck, you better drive it in a manner which does not endanger the public.

If you work in medicine you better do your job, so that you do not cause harm to your patients.

And if you carry a gun on your hip, one would think you should have a moral imperative to learn to use it in a manner which is safe to the general public. Even if management should discourage such a mindset.

As to the last paragraph of my post, I will let you attempt to tell us that cops poorly trained in marksmanship never hit an innocent bystander when attempting to shoot a felon.

Does not a NYCPD shooter OWN that bullet until it comes to its final resting place?

While I have never been involved in combat, I am a smart enough hunter to hold my fire until I have a very high likelihood of hitting my target, and to ensure that I have a safe back stop.

It seems that is a mindset which would work well in police work, if not military combat where suppressive fire is a common tactic.

Don't know where you came up with this bit of misinformation, but it's incorrect. The LAPD has traditionally been a Marine Corps "mafia", with LAPD organizations, clubs and fraternal groups made up of former Marines. It's encouraged. Academy training is still based on Marine cadence calls and PT; the student class leader will traditionally be a former Marine.

Probably close to 30-40% of the new recruits now have military prior service in their background. Former military get preference in hiring. The department actively recruits on Camp Pendleton, FT Bragg, FT Irwin, etc. Ex-military (including SOF) are encouraged to join and are VERY well treated by the department. They're older with more life experience, which Personnel Div and cadre both realize. Having come from an SOF background with 24+ years on the LAPD, I think I have some insight into our hiring practices.
Bob

Hey RGK, you asked how long the gun fight lasted. . My brother made a couple of phone calls to his friends in the NYPD . Less then a minute! My brothers friend said it is a detectives nightmare :-) he is trying to get more info on it.

Allard was the 1982 National Civilian Pistol Champion; Cirillo shot and competed in PPC for training. Both were initially recruited from the ranks of the NYPD Pistol Team. Allard was the firearms/tactics instructor for the SOU and personally selected each candidate, based on his scores shooting the old Police "L" course, which is fired one-handed with a revolver.

As far as the hit ratio on suspects go, this one was somewhat low, as it was a running gun battle with the suspect shooting back (makes a difference sometimes). All the cops fired one magazine at the suspect. All were sure of their background. The NYPD hit ratio overall has been rising steadily over the last few years; aberrations like this shooting will occur, despite all the calls for "more training" by the uninformed. The NYPD range at Rodman's Neck outside the Bronx is going 24-7, qualifying 35,000 cops (2 times yearly). Also included is shotgun and subgun work, plainclothes qual, academy students, gun repair, bomb detail, etc. Juggling the equivalent of more than two Army infantry divisions that need to train constantly is quite a logistical feat. Police work doesn't revolve around gun-handling skills; it's important, but only a small portion of doing a good job and finishing your tour in one piece and your career intact.

Two or three points that most don't consider, or care about:
1. In a real gunfight, you don't pick your "scenario", unlike most of the shooters here at their weekly range practice.

2. Lots of rounds available in a gunfight is always good; you keep shooting until the bad guy gives up or dies. You take the shot you're offered, good or bad. Two of the cops in this shooting were highly experienced distinguished marksmen. Good shooters don't always win the day with a well-executed head shot from 50 meters.

3. No one but the suspect was injured; it was a good day for the citizens, cops and the NYPD. Cops won. This incident will be analyzed and critiqued all the way up to Chief level. Lessons will be learned and implemented. That's how it's done in a large organization.
Bob

Wild Bill Hickok's only training regimen was to fire five rounds from each of his revolvers before sundown in his back yard at a static target, thus emptying them, followed by reloading them with fresh powder, balls, and caps before setting them by his bed for the night. I guess he owed his success at gun fighting mainly to attitude and steely nerves.

Can't argue with that. Shooting daily probably didn't hurt, either.
Bob

Those that knew the man said he had filed off the front sights of his revolvers so he wouldn't be tempted to use them in a gun fight (the opposite of modern gun fighting theory). He just pointed them instinctively. Those close to him also said he was only, at best, a fair shot when he took careful aim with a sighted revolver. I don't believe he is recorded to have ever killed a man who was further away than 20 feet.

It's been a long time since we've had a thread this full of misinformation.

That is the way it was at one time. Not anymore.
Where did I get that information ? Jeff Cooper mentioned it before he died, for one.
The ban on hiring anybody from special forces is state wide in Kalifornia. And that information comes from someone who is retired from the San Jose PD's brass. Other branches of the military are not so banned. Air Force, Army and Navy people are hired and often prefered.
All of this came about in the last few years. E