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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
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I believe the reason most Police Officers have a problem hitting their target, is because they are having second thoughts about shooting another human or scared chittless about being shot themselves. They don't even see the sights and aim, they just point and shoot and hope for the best.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Campfire Regular
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That is the way it was at one time. Not anymore.
Where did I get that information ? Jeff Cooper mentioned it before he died, for one.
The ban on hiring anybody from special forces is state wide in Kalifornia. And that information comes from someone who is retired from the San Jose PD's brass. Other branches of the military are not so banned. Air Force, Army and Navy people are hired and often prefered.
All of this came about in the last few years. E
Gotta be the the dumbest thing I've heard today, but hey, the day is still young. No "statewide ban" on SOF hiring; what a lawsuit and a newspaper article that would be. Like I said, LAPD actively recruits Army, Navy, USMC, etc, to include SOF dudes. I had more than one Marine 0311 or an Army 11B/18B MOS guy as my trainee when I was an FTO. As far as that gunfighter god Jeff Cooper goes, he wasn't a cop in So Cal or any other place. "What he told you" is BS. But hey, I was only there for 24 years. Since I've just retired from the LAPD and you've been out of it for several decades, maybe you should do a google check or something on the LAPD and So Cal police hiring. When I was back on active duty as a 1SG at FT Bragg SWCS (Special Warfare Center & School) in 2012 and 2013 I personally recruited more than one SF dude for the dept. And they're there now. Amazing the schitt that pops up on the internet. Bob
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Campfire Regular
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4ager, I am not a convicted felon. The background check done for CCW permit revealed no criminal record. E
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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That is the way it was at one time. Not anymore.
Where did I get that information ? Jeff Cooper mentioned it before he died, for one.
The ban on hiring anybody from special forces is state wide in Kalifornia. And that information comes from someone who is retired from the San Jose PD's brass. Other branches of the military are not so banned. Air Force, Army and Navy people are hired and often prefered.
All of this came about in the last few years. E
Gotta be the the dumbest thing I've heard today, but hey, the day is still young. No "statewide ban" on SOF hiring; what a lawsuit and a newspaper article that would be. Like I said, LAPD actively recruits Army, Navy, USMC, etc, to include SOF dudes. I had more than one Marine 0311 or an Army 11B/18B MOS guy as my trainee when I was an FTO. As far as that gunfighter god Jeff Cooper goes, he wasn't a cop in So Cal or any other place. "What he told you" is BS. But hey, I was only there for 24 years. Since I've just retired from the LAPD and you've been out of it for several decades, maybe you should do a google check or something on the LAPD and So Cal police hiring. When I was back on active duty as a 1SG at FT Bragg SWCS (Special Warfare Center & School) in 2012 and 2013 I personally recruited more than one SF dude for the dept. And they're there now. Amazing the schitt that pops up on the internet. Bob ![[Linked Image]](http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz76/Rawrrr-Its-Vaness/big_4035640.gif)
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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4ager, I am not a convicted felon. The background check done for CCW permit revealed no criminal record. E When slather a giant load of Über on something that's already Überriffic, whatever that thing is then called, that's what this thread just became. Oheremicus....What were you convicted of, if not a felony?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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4ager, I am not a convicted felon. The background check done for CCW permit revealed no criminal record. E Whatever the background check said VERY recently (when you got your rights restored to carry) is subject only to court order. The incident that got you booted from law enforcement is what it is, and was, and always will be. You haven't a clue, Rocklin, and you're being a fool. Bob has the credentials you don't, and couldn't, have and who/what you are is pretty damned well known these days.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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LAPD has long had the reputation of the highest gunfight survival rate among large police organizations anywhere in the world.
The skills they use were developed by Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver, and several others way back in the 1960's.
The last I heard, they still train their cops that way. They shoot alot. Both with side arms and their shotguns.
In spite of all of this, their "Politically Correct" shooting policies are so demanding that very few dare doing any shooting. Even in self defense.
On top of that, the temperment of many of their new hires are really not suited to effective shooting. When they were hunting the ex-cop that killed some of them, they managed to fire 117 rds. at a truck containing two women that did not match the description of the suspects truck. The range was aprox. 50 yds. shortly before sunrise in good light. Luckly, they only wounded one of the women in a non serious way. E Some more stupidity. Like any organization that has 10,000 people, some aren't cut out for street patrol and catching bad guys. These guys don't last too long. Peer pressure works well. The cops that did the shooting at the pick-up truck in Torrance (Mexican ladies delivering newspapers) were from Torrance PD and the Airport Police. Two LA cops were there, but didn't fire. As far as Cooper's techniques go, they were used as an experiment during the Nov 1984 class. It was taught by John Helms and Larry Mudgett, both LAPD SWAT and Cooper school instructors. Shootings and qual scores by those Nov 84 class officers were tracked for 5 years. SOME of the techniques were adopted; Weaver stance, etc. Not used now. Time marches on. LAPD shooting policy is the same as it always was; you screw up, you go down. If it's a good shoot, you'll be protected. It's happening now; the Chief is going against the finding of the civilian Police Commission in a shooting in skid row. The police chief has final say. Bob
Last edited by RGK; 09/08/15.
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4ager, I am not a convicted felon. The background check done for CCW permit revealed no criminal record. E So how much time lapsed from getting fired to getting your concealed carry permit? The damn paper probably rotted with your charges on it!!!
"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"
Vince Lombardi
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I am very surprised to hear that. Thanks for the information. E
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I am very surprised to hear that. Thanks for the information. E No. Your just blowing off at the mouth again and got caught! Nothing unusual for you!!!
"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"
Vince Lombardi
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Wild Bill Hickok's only training regimen was to fire five rounds from each of his revolvers before sundown in his back yard at a static target, thus emptying them, followed by reloading them with fresh powder, balls, and caps before setting them by his bed for the night. I guess he owed his success at gun fighting mainly to attitude and steely nerves. Can't argue with that. Shooting daily probably didn't hurt, either. Bob Those that knew the man said he had filed off the front sights of his revolvers so he wouldn't be tempted to use them in a gun fight (the opposite of modern gun fighting theory). He just pointed them instinctively. Those close to him also said he was only, at best, a fair shot when he took careful aim with a sighted revolver. I don't believe he is recorded to have ever killed a man who was further away than 20 feet. I recall reading exactly the opposite, specifically his last gunfight in Springfield, MO. I recall reading that he specifically took aim (distance was like 70 yards) and because of that his shot struck and the other guys didn't (I don't recall who the guy was, but it was over a card game and a watch).
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Wild Bill Hickok's only training regimen was to fire five rounds from each of his revolvers before sundown in his back yard at a static target, thus emptying them, followed by reloading them with fresh powder, balls, and caps before setting them by his bed for the night. I guess he owed his success at gun fighting mainly to attitude and steely nerves. Can't argue with that. Shooting daily probably didn't hurt, either. Bob Those that knew the man said he had filed off the front sights of his revolvers so he wouldn't be tempted to use them in a gun fight (the opposite of modern gun fighting theory). He just pointed them instinctively. Those close to him also said he was only, at best, a fair shot when he took careful aim with a sighted revolver. I don't believe he is recorded to have ever killed a man who was further away than 20 feet. I recall reading exactly the opposite, specifically his last gunfight in Springfield, MO. I recall reading that he specifically took aim (distance was like 70 yards) and because of that his shot struck and the other guys didn't (I don't recall who the guy was, but it was over a card game and a watch). July 21, 1865, Springfield, MO. Hickok killed Davis Tutt at a distance of 70 or 75 yds (depends on what you read). One shot, one kill. Front sight focus with excellent trigger control. Too easy. Bob
Last edited by RGK; 09/08/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Wild Bill Hickok's only training regimen was to fire five rounds from each of his revolvers before sundown in his back yard at a static target, thus emptying them, followed by reloading them with fresh powder, balls, and caps before setting them by his bed for the night. I guess he owed his success at gun fighting mainly to attitude and steely nerves. Can't argue with that. Shooting daily probably didn't hurt, either. Bob Those that knew the man said he had filed off the front sights of his revolvers so he wouldn't be tempted to use them in a gun fight (the opposite of modern gun fighting theory). He just pointed them instinctively. Those close to him also said he was only, at best, a fair shot when he took careful aim with a sighted revolver. I don't believe he is recorded to have ever killed a man who was further away than 20 feet. I recall reading exactly the opposite, specifically his last gunfight in Springfield, MO. I recall reading that he specifically took aim (distance was like 70 yards) and because of that his shot struck and the other guys didn't (I don't recall who the guy was, but it was over a card game and a watch). July 21, 1865, Springfield, MO. Hickok killed Davis Tutt at a distance of 70 or 75 yds (depends on what you read). One shot, one kill. Front sight focus with excellent trigger control. Too easy. Bob I've heard that there is a marker in the place where it happened... sometime when I'm in Springfield I want to go to the square to see it.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Sometimes without being there it can be hard to explain to someone why a shot might not hit or how damn difficult it can be to hit someone. To much training by police or CCW folks, relies on a fight they hope to get, not the fight they might actually get.
Multiple times I have held off shooting simply because I could not get a proper sight picture for the needed shot due to suspect movement, my movement, use of cover by anyone involved, lighting conditions, distance, a partner blinding you with a flashlight as you get ready to shoot, someone stepping in front of you because they are trying to use the same cover, the jacked up K-9 shifting its focus to you, citizens standing in the background taking a great facebook photo with their smart phone, etc.
It makes me laugh a little when someone demands we apply square range solutions to dynamic, 3-D situations.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've heard that there is a marker in the place where it happened... sometime when I'm in Springfield I want to go to the square to see it.
There is.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,670 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,670 Likes: 1 |
I've heard that there is a marker in the place where it happened... sometime when I'm in Springfield I want to go to the square to see it.
Yes there is, that's where I heard about the incident.
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jwp475 - "Bill Allard and jim Cirillo were both NYPD officers...". That's 2 good individuals out of maybe (just guessing here) 30,000 NYPD LEO's. Homesteader
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,980 Likes: 6 |
jwp475 - "Bill Allard and jim Cirillo were both NYPD officers...". That's 2 good individuals out of maybe (just guessing here) 30,000 NYPD LEO's. Homesteader
Yep, but the fact remains that they were extremely good!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
..so much for 9mm being accurate, effective and easy to shoot well. That said one to the calf did bring the guy down.
Would you say that about your AR?  Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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