Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Christensen vs. Dakota

No reason to break-in any barrel, unless you're somehow convinced it's necessary and have time time and components to waste.

Well I have heard it both ways. But the manufactures say you do.

I typically use it as practice with a new gun and a way to find out what my new gun likes to spit out in terms of bullet grain, manufacturer and such. Yeah it cost some ca'ching but in terms of the total cost of the rifle and the elk hunts it is an investment that is worth the time, expense and effort.

And I agree with Mule Deer,there's no reason for barrel "break-in."

Another +1 on the barrel break in.....

Biggest myth perpetrated on American shooters.

Tucker1965,

No, "the manufacturers" do not universally recommend break-in, and I know several manufacturers who suggest a break-in procedure only because so many of their customers demand one. These include both barrelmakers and custom riflemakers. And at least one barrel maker is happy when his customers do the one-shot-clean routine for dozens of rounds,, because it shortens barrel life by that many rounds, and they'll have to buy a new barrel sooner.

But here's why it doesn't really matter anyway, especially for hunting rifles:

1) The typical break-in method was developed by benchrest shooters who wanted their new barrels shooting as well as possible before the first match. But most hunters aren't getting their rifles ready for a match next weekend, and it won't make any significant difference in accuracy anyway.

2) Break-in supposedly works by smoothing the barrel, especially the reamer marks left in the throat. This is accomplished by shooting bullets through a super-clean bore, but the same thing happens if you just clean the bore down to bare steel between range sessions. Cleaning between every shot doesn't make break-in work any better, just faster--which is why benchrest shooters started doing it.

3) The bores of lapped barrels don't require break-in, just the throat.

4) If you really feel compelled to break-in a chamber throat quickly, it can accomplished more effectively and far quicker by firing 3 abrasive bullets, like those used in fire-lapping. Or you can wrap some fine steel wool around a bore-brush, then use a drill motor to spin the bore-brush in the chamber throat. More than one benchrest gunsmith does this.

5) If a factory barrel is very smooth (and many are these days) then the techniques outlined in #4 will break the throat in. If the bore isn't smooth, then you can do the one-shot-clean procedure for hundreds of rounds without making any significant difference--except perhaps burning out the throat. With rougher factory bores, it's far more effective to fire-lap or install Dyna-Tek Bore Coat--or both.

6) At least 90% of the guys I see "breaking in" their barrel at local ranges do it wrong. They fire a shot, then scrub the barrel with a bore-brush and a little liquid solvent, then push a patch or two through before firing another shot. This only gets some of the fouling out, but not all, and for break-in to really work, the throat area needs to be absolutely free of any fouling. Otherwise the bullets are just riding over the fouling, not bare steel.

But whatever makes you happy.

MD, I've read what you've written and this makes the most sense to me. Load up the bullet you want to shoot with a few different powders, and see what shoots best. Because you have to do that anyway with a new rifle. It's hard too see what shoots best if you have to stop between each shot to clean; if you clean to bare steel you'd spend all day to get any results. Plus, every shot would be out of a clean bore and those don't always give an accurate picture of the accuracy of a load.

I like to use a good foaming cleaner like Wipeout between sessions to make sure I get all the copper out. Best thing is, it works overnight with no bore scrubbing.

Yeah, I much prefer cleaning a rifle at home with some sort of solvent that does the work for me, especially while I'm sleeping!

Both Wipe-Out and Montana X-Treme work very well overnight, but if I'm in a little bit of a hurry the Montana X-Treme Copper Killer will normally do the job in less than an hour--but like Wipe-Out and the regular X-Treme you can leave it in the bore forever and it won't do any harm.

John,

How come in reviews I see see complaints about bore damage from these products? Do you think it's possible that these "damaged" bores had pits that were coppered over and when the cleaner did its work the pits were exposed?

I haven't tried the Montana products yet, but will soon as Wipe-Out hasn't worked all that well for me, sending me back for the J-B, which works, but is a lot of work. My brother used an electronic cleaner, but those are fraught with peril for a scatter-brained old timer (Happy Birthday, by the way).

Interesting. I will have to give some thought/research to the no brake-in. I have always done so with new guns but it seems here at least so far everyone says its a myth and may do more harm than good.

Mule Deer do you have any research/studies that goes along with what you are saying?

Tucker, let me save you some humiliation. Google John Barsness and read a little bit. You will have your answer.

Getting any research on whether it works or not would be problematic. You'd have to obtain a run of "identical" barrels, and enough of them to be statistically significant. And then test barrels that were "broken in" vs those that weren't.

I don't think anybody's done that, and it's unlikely anyone will.

So what you're left with is anecdotes.

JG, no need to be a prick.

He really wasn't. Your post was on the verge of calling out one of the most extensively published gunwriters of our generation--a guy who does a lot of research before forming opinions.

JG was just trying to make sure that you--someone with a relatively low post count--knew who you were asking for the factual basis behind his view.

Pappy,

I don't know where you heard that Wipe-Out or Montana X-Treme damaged bores, but if you can put your hands on the reports I'd like to hear from you.

Many kinds of ammonia-based cleaners can damage bores, because they're water-based. This is why the instructions suggest running another patch through the bore every 15-20 minutes: The water has evaporated, and the solvent will pit the bore.

Both Wipe-Out and Montana X-Treme are oil-based, and the oil doesn't evaporate. Consequently you can leave them in the bore safely for as long as you want, and the bore won't pit. I have been using both for a long time, and my bore-scope shows no change in the bores of my barrels. They also don't foul any more (and usually less), and more fouling is a sign of very light pitting. (One exception may be the "accelerator" for Wipe-Out, which makes it work quicker. One independant test indicated it might pit bores.)

I had an electronic cleaner for a few years, and it was a PITA to use compared to Wipe-Out or Montana X-Treme.

Tucker1965,

No, I have never found any scientific studies that compare the results from a bunch of barrels that have been broken-in by the "accelerated" method or just shot. Apparently they don't exist, for the very reason smokepole stated: You'd have to compare a BUNCH of supposedly identical barrels before coming to any firm comclusions.

What I have done, however, is compare both the accelerated break-in method and various other methods over many years, including cleaning down to bare steel between range sessions, using fire-lapping bullets, and various other methods. I started this experimentation in the 1990's, when suddenly many shooters decided it had became necessary to "properly" break-in any new barrel immediately. (Somehow the word "properly" is often used, even though the methods vary considerably--including the furious scrubbing I've seen so often at ranges.)

My research was helped immensely by the use of a Hawkleye borescope to analyze the effectiveness of various techniques, but I also did some research into the origins of the method. Both led to the conclusions stated in my above post, but I've also published more than one full-length article on the subject containing more details.

Have also had conversations with several barrelmakers and custom riflesmiths who told me what I stated above: They only started suggesting a break-in procedure because so many of their customers were some convinced by all the break-in blather that it was absolutely necessary. So to prevent wasting time having to explain why break-in was also a waste of time, they just made up something and put it on their website and in their brochures.

Yes, there are some companies that earnestly suggest break-in procedures. If you feel like following them, go ahead. But like many other procedures in rifle shooting that supposedly are absolutely necessary, my testing convinced me it was a waste of time. And I'm too busy to waste time on useless stuff, like uniforming primer pockets in brass shot in factory hunting rifles, or breaking-in barrels by cleaning them after every shot, when neither makes any difference.

I taught Barsness everything he knows about rifles and barrel "break-in" so now you can sleep easy knowing his info came right from the source.

What Hart Barrels says on barrel break-in...


[u][color:#000099][size:17pt]Hart Barrel Break-in[/size][/color][/u]

Sorry John, I should have specified that these were customer reviews, not professional writers. There are two on the Midway site that claim damage as this is written. I didn't buy the claims, I was only looking for a possible explanation for what these guys reported. I may have seen other user comments someplace, but who can remember the details of everything they see on the www?

Other than some damage to stock finish (my fault), I've got no complaints about Wipe-Out. I am a little puzzled about the very ammonia-like smell from an ammonia-free product.

As best as I can recall, complaints about the e-cleaners were from folks that didn't follow the directions. I can easily see myself forgetting about one of those contraptions and having a whoopsie as a result. Man's got to know his limitations!

EDIT: went back and the only complaints were about Wipe-Out, not Montana Xtreme. A number of similar products get high marks for getting the copper out. Looks like I need to upgrade.

Pappy,

I was also curious about the ammonia smell so I contacted the company. They told me the smell comes from urea in the product, not ammonia.

A quick wiki check says (I think, like I said, it was quick) says urea is created by the body from ammonia, or synthetically using an ammonia compound, so the old schnoz wasn't totally wrong.