Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns I don't care about 50 yd accuracy!

Had a marine sgt tell me that once.

An idiot instructor instructing an idiot.

Win/win?



Travis

I'd like to know who the "Grand Master" was who "fell apart" in a scenario you put on.

I meant to be sarcastic in that one; guess I didn't quite succeed.
Bob

"Confidence in your ability goes a long way towards prevailing."

I've always said this because being able to unconsciously get your gun into play allows one to give 99% of your concentration to the situation at hand. In all the times I had to draw on someone I can only say the gun appeared in my hand. I have no memory of drawing it. It's the same way when doing the scenarios, buzzer goes off and the gun is on target....

Having confidence in your ability also allows you to not shoot someone, giving them that few seconds to decide to live instead of die...

Bob

I was sure your comment was tongue in cheek. no worries!

I probably should not have said "Grand Master" as I only know these people to be top shots and internationally known instructors...and it was not my shoot...it was the National Tactical Invitational...

The last part of the shoot was live fire Simunitions against real people...who for a change were very good actors. I think there was 11 or 12 teams. All the rest of the teams died in both scenarios because they went in with a "Game" mentality..bully your way through. They were all covered with hits. My one hit was in the support hand pinky knuckle and I killed the guy. My partner got hit in the shoulder just as we were about to exit the second scenario...and I killed the guy.

I just did it like I did on the street...none of the others had ever done it "for real" before.

Bob

Having the capability of hitting at 50yds and 100yds, on a man size target, with a duty/CC carry gun, should never be diminished by any instructor.

Any instructor that would do so is a fugking moron.





Travis

It was before a bar fight anyway.

Lawton, OK. 1987

A well-rounded shooter should be able to do reasonably well at any reasonable distance, but why this silliness must continually be debated in theoretical terms continues to escape me.

The paradigm of small arms conflict involving both citizens and cops has been fairly steady since the invention of black powder. It ain't rocket science.

While the occasional anomaly will always exist, the overwhelming majority of engagements are predictably measured in feet – not yards. A prudent man will prepare himself well for the probability before wasting time and resources on the outlying possibility.

Shooting static, full-size steel targets at 50 yards or more in the bright light of a square range bears little correlation to the skills necessary to dominate close range engagements at moving targets in low light.

Agreed, Gitem, instructor is a idiot!
And I beleive the incedent your referring to, happened in Brown County, TX, about 75 miles south of me. Local SO responded to a shooting where the bad guy killed his neighbor over a dog barking dispute. When SO arrived on scene, the bad guy shot and killed the first Deputy that responded. During the shootout, a elderly CHL holder in his late 70's shot and killed the Perp at 60 to 75 yards with a .357 Magnum.
Moral of the story, don't piss off a old Texan that can shoot a handgun!

And as to making long range shots with a handgun, I started shooting Sillhoutte Competition in 1980 with a Super Black Hawk with a 7.5" barrel in 44 mag. We shot Ram steel targets at 200 yards, and turkey steel targets at 200 yards in the shoot off if the match was tied after 40 rounds. And it wasn't unusual to see a shooter hit all 5 turkeys at 200 yards with just a plain old revolver.
Personally, I can hit a 10" steel plate fairly regularly with my Glock 10mm. Not all that hard to do with some frequent practice, IMO

Grand master B?

So we should only train for close range, moving targets, in low light?



Travis

long time ago playing county popo we regularly practiced out to 50yards, strong hand, weak hand, double handed, left and right barricade.
You don't know what you are going to run into. distances can be short, or they can be longer. The cartels station people up on hilltops to monitor floor/valley activity. Those carry good long range optics setup systems.
If you had a choice you would chose a rifle for sure but you may not have that choice.
I remember the first dept public safety course i ran through, they did a lot of their shooting up close like five and 7yards. I thought it was pretty funny.
but what do you expect from tail light chasers.
I have always felt the capability to hit at longer distances made shorter distances like shooting at the side of a barn.
The other comment is if you are going to carry, it isn't about paper targets. Probably admitting what it could be potentially used for is a good thing, and the mind set/skills needed to do it.

sometime stand between two patrol cars when it is pitch black out with all lights going and the sirens and welpers at full blast and try to hit some targets. Much different game.

if that guy was shooting at you, i don't think 50yards would throw a judge, particularly with a rifle.
tell the instructor to go back to class. all of that is situational.

a lot of these firearms training classes are on paper targets, places like gunsight being the exception. Reading some of sagebrush's exploits with a pistola on rabbits always made me think of my dad.
His comment was when you get good enought to pop bunnies on the run consistently, then you have learned the game.
It isn't so easy.
Many times out quail hunting that is the game. trying to hit jackrabbits at a full gallop with a handgun till they are out of sight.

For me it all boils down to one thing before a trigger gets pulled, can I obtain the necessary sight picture, sight alignment and trigger pull to achieve the desired hit? If I am trying to hit an 8" circle at 3 yards just about anything will work. Trying to hit that same 8" at 50 yards in bad light might be a shot I would take under one set of circumstance and will pass under others.

Someone said something like "a man's gotta know his limitations". I agree but add that a man needs to know his lowest true level of abilities, when he is at his worst. Under stress we do not rise to the occasion, we tend to drop to our lowest level of unconscious competence.

I am still alive so GFY!

Yet another of God's many miracles.




Dave