Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Excellent article on Improved Cartridges

My dad paid $15 for it at a hardware store when he was kid and to this day I've never seen one even remotely close in condition.

I miss the days when you could pick a rifle out of a barrel.

"$15 for anything in the barrel"

I got several 303s, some old Mausers and a Mosin Nagant that way. I still have a couple of them. I have to find an 8x57 again. They weren't anything special, but it was one of the first rimless cartridges I reloaded for.

Got one of my first .303's that way too. I sure didn't know anything about the Epps Improved version then. But we were way out west, and anything that deserved custom gunsmithing work such as rechambering or the like, would have to be a couple rungs up the scale. I'm sure it would've helped as I had many handload attempts that would separate due to case stretch and working in the resize die. I always thought it was due to not having the correct bolt-head on those SMLE's
;-)

The evolution of rimless improved cases seems to have reached it's limit. There really isn't much capacity to be gained from improving anything like a .223, .260, or .243, other than minor volume changes due to a steeper shoulder angle.
Powder capacity isn't increased by much, because the shoulder diameter is already improved at .454".
In these cases Velocity Improvements come more from Long Throating and mostly from Pressure Increases.

The 6.5 CM looks remarkably like an uber improved .250-3000 (.462 shoulder), with a brass manufacturing friendly 30 degree shoulder angle.

Wonder if there's any reason why the new case designs reflect the "Ackley Improvements"? Minimum body taper and no more 17 degree shoulders.

Wonder why?

I'd like to have a .22-250AI at some point, preferably with a fast twist. But that's a "down the road" type of deal.

I'd also be curious to know if a .223AI would function reliably in an AR, but I have never heard anyone vote yea or nay on it.

I had an ongoing letter communication with Ed Mattunis over the .220 Swift in the 1970's. Interesting letters, but we differed.

You are showing your age!! I too remember the Lee Enfields and Mauser's in post-WW2 that cost $15 from a pile or barrel!

Exactly my point - The improvements from minimal case body taper are already designed in. By my calculations, this is where the most capacity increases come from with the AI's
The shoulder angle requires fireforming for the steeper sloped versions. The bonus being better headspace control, and my favourite - less trimming.

A poster in the AR forum has mentioned a couple of times that a pard has a 223AI in an AR and that it works and feeds from unaltered magazines. FWIW...

I hope noone stole my copy because mine hasnt shown up in the mail yet.

Interesting....
I went through the ackley craze my self and really don't have anything against them.. Tho for me I have sold or rebarreled them all.
For me I don't see the point...if I need more power than 30/06 I take the 300 why...why 22-250 ai. Get a swift... I think the spectrom is well covered...
All that said...we do like to tinker and be different and have something to talk about so Ackley away......

You have to remember the time. Remington, Winchester and others were releasing fewer new cartridges back then, and there was more room between cartridges. Increase the power a bit, or get more without needing to buy a new rifle. A different era certainly.

WRT to the companies, I recall that they kept changing the rifles more than the ammunition. They were chambered in different, but existing cartridges. They changed the stocks and/or offered fancier grades. They messed with the checkering or finish.

Remember when the rifle companies went through the "Let's lighten the rifles" phase? A lot of sweat was generated figuring ways to do that. They shaved 0.5 an ounce here and there, to make the perfect 4 or 5 lb magnum mountain rifle.

Hundreds of articles were written about Remington, Winchester or some upstart company/gunsmith saving 2 oz by changing the recoil pads, thinning metal or bobbing barrels (or something equally silly), so everyone could carry a mountain rifle. And we certainly needed more 5 lb. firearms chambered for 300 Win Mag.

I have one improved rifle left, but, like yours, it's going away. I have already ordered a new barrel for a No 4 Lee Enfield action which will be rechambered back to 303 British, but using a 308 barrel. It becomes a 7.62 British. There is a better selection of bullets, and I can use my existing die sets and magazines. No feeding issues either. In that sense, this improves or upgrades the rifle.

I have done this twice before, and the idea is not new. Others did it before me. To my way of thinking, this is a real improvement.

I stamp mine 30-03 British. The Epps is stamped 30-03 Epps.
This just so I could avoid the commie inspired metric designation! GD

I only have 1 "improved" rifle -
I'm VERY happy with my K-Hornet! (Mostly due to brass life)

If the factories had started with straight-sided, steep-shouldered, full-capacity cases, no one would be making the argument for squeezing them down to long slopes and less capacity. Tells you all you need to know right there.

Not seeing any 30wsm un-improved in the future are we?

I'm very interested in whether the bolt stays in the gun. Or not.

It is not like the early cartridge designers didn't know what they were doing. Cases with more taper and sloping shoulders and early on, with round nose bullets, feed very easily and reliably from the magazine to the chamber and extract easily from hot or dirty chambers.

These attributes were very desirable for both military rifles and lever-action rifles. And trimming or reloading the cases wasn't a consideration for the manufacturers.

Even today cartridges like the 250 Savage and the 7x57 are noted for their smooth and trouble-free functioning. Once again, everything in life seems to involve compromises.

I shoot all sort of "Improved" cartridges, they are called Weatherbys. Sorry, couldn't resist...

Yeah.....but it's true! PO did not invent Improved cartridges. Roy and other wildcatters were blowing out cartridges back into the 1940's, and earlier.

Stand by.....