Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Kni-Co stoves.

Update.

Tested the Packer Jr with some mixed results. Here are some photos of the stove:





The stove put off some good heat. It cooked food and boiled water very fast. Being heavier than my small Kifaru and homemade stove it took longer to heat up. But once heated it remained hot longer. The down side was that the stove would smoke me out big time. Once driving me from my tent in a massive cloud of smoke and gas. Flames would jump out the door for about a foot. This told me that it was not drafting correctly. First I removed the homemade robber. Still smoked. Then the damper but that didn�t help. Then one and the other spark screens. Smoke nearly the same. Don�t understand this as even the take down Kifaru stove can operate my robber/damper/spark screen combo and being less airtight the stove should draft worse. But my only experience with stove are sub 3lb fire boxes and 40 lbs once. Never burned an 8 lb steel stove before. The stoves construction is first class. Like the plate behind the air intake hole. Maybe to stop sparks from jumping out etc? The stove pipe port even has a bend inward to support the pipe etc. Looks first rate so the fault must be with me. I sent and email off to Kni-co to see what I am doing wrong. Will update the board again

Thanks Woods. I've been looking forward to your report. My 70 lb. KwikKamp does not smoke me out but it has a 5" pipe and tapers out, not in. I wonder if you prime the pipe for a heat gradient like Ole' Wik suggests, if that will break the barrier you have going. Stuff some paper up the pipe and light that first. See if that doesn't get you a draw going.

Are these Kni-Co stoves the same as sold by Cabelas?

Hummm maybe but even with the stove very hot for some time and a good fire going it smoke me right out of the tent in about 3 seconds if I even cracked open the door. Even smokes me out when I add more wood on top of coals. The roll up pipe can change width but overall it must have more area inside than a 3-inch pipe that tapers down. Must be something I am doing wrong. I can run my other stoves with the door open etc. Glad for the longer burn times, as I feared opening the door.

This little stove is running with the door open and not even a hint of smoke.



But then again I have used the thing about a hundred times. The same goes for my homemade round stove so I know just how it will work with any fuel. I will report back soon. I think the fault must be mine. Every time something does not work it is because I screwed up. This guy makes the stoves for Empire and a bunch of others. He told me that lots of companies come to him for their stove manufacture. So I am guessing he knows how to make a stove.

Rem

He charged me under 10 bucks to ship it. I think they are the same.

Wow, at full throttle and still getting smoked out. Thats a conundrum. What if you remove the spark screen element. I've thought those slots must be acting somewhat as a carburetor, cooling off the lower pipe and also inducing a secondary burn up farther with the added O2. But then that doesn't explain why it works just fine in other cases.

Keep us informed- always interesting to follow what you're up to.

I removed the spark screens. Still smokes. I mean fill your tent up and smoke rushing out the tent's door smoke. I think the thin SS roll up pipes drafts good as it heats up fast slots or no. Still I only ran it without screens for 20 seconds for fear of pin holes. But the stove seems to burn without alot of sparks. A good thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, maybe. I gotta think those slots are sucking in air pretty good. But I'm not gonna drill holes all the way up the pipe to test that theory.

You missunderstand. A sealed collar system would be better but even with slots the rollup pipe drafts very good due to the fast heating. I don't think letting air into the pipe helps. Seems it would spoil some draft. Well anyways I will find out what I am doing wrong. May even pick up some 3-inch pipe at HD just to remove the rollup pipe from the mix for testing

Woods, the S&H seemed cheap for something heavy like a stove, so I assumed it must be an east coast company close to you. When I clicked on the "contact us" page I was VERY surprised that Kni-co is located about 100miles from my house! I never would have guessed it. That kinda answers how I'll buy my stove.

For a 8.5x11.5 (w/7ft pk) canvas wedge tent, I'm thinking the Packer stove would be the right size. Any thoughts?

Interesting. The first stove I made was the same size as the Alaskan Jr and using the 3-2" pipe. It's a smoking bugger too!


Need to be very careful with wood management and be careful to move up in size incrementally or the little bugger smokes away. Adding big peices of wood too fast will cause excessive smoking.*

North61, I like your homegrown stoves. You've inspired me to try making one. I have most all the hardware from old dog boxes on an old trailer. Where do you go to get your sheet metal? And what is the purpose of the recessed front face?

Woods,

What are the stove dimensions? I have found if stove box is too tall in comparison to the length and width, you will get smoked out big time. A larger diameter and / or longer pipe will help.
I don't fully understand why this happens, but sometimes by reducing the height by as little as 1/2" would do the trick when working with prototypes.

Ed T

Huskeyrunnr: I use stove pipe metal for the stove body. Simply square the stove pipe and lock it together at the seam. Use STEEL and not aluminum pop rivets. The recessed front is not strictly necessary but makes for a more rigid construction as every bend adds a bit of stiffness to the stove. Get Ole Wik's book about stove making on Amazon for a good reference and lots of ideas.

To figure out the size of stove pipe needed take the circumference multiply by pi and divide by 4 to get your rough square dimensions.

For example 7" pipe would be 14" when pieced together multiply by 3.14 to get 44" divided by 4 gives an 11" stove,

Square works less well than rectangular with the base being narrower than the heighth. A 10 wide by 12 high stove made with 7" pipe would burn well and is my favourite size. Make it long enough to carry the pipe inside. 18-24" depending on your pipe.

6 inch pipe gives you a 9.5" stove, try 8.5 wide by 10.5 High

8" Pipe gives a 12.5 Stove try 11.5 wide by 13.5 high

I have an airtight stove that is rectangular but sits upright. That is, it sits up on end with the long axis verticle. The 4" stove pipe does not leave a lot of cooking space but is fine for boiling water. Its 8" x 8" x 17". The wood is elevated off of the bottom by about an inch using expanded metal grate. That small compartment is also where the vent is located. No damper in the output, only a vent on the input. With the expanded metal the ash falls into the compartment. Longer pieces of wood lean towards verticle, resting against the stove side.
This configuration lends itself to excellent drafting. It never smokes. Once going it can be turned into a blast furnace with its excellent drafting. At that point is will burn anything, wet wood, large pieces, bark, etc.

I just got off the horn with Kni-co and should have a Packer on the porch later this week. I ordered the pipe, damper, and screen package too. It should be fun to play with while waiting for my tent. The neighbors will think I've lost a wheel when they see me running a stove in the backyard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ed T

9.5 high, 12 inches long and 10 wide.

Another thing I was thinking about is maybe the door has something to do with it.



The opening for the door is very large. Not bad but there is not alot of metal overhang on the top maybe 1/2 inch.

I put more meat on the top of my homemade stove's opening and less on the bottom.



Being that the air flow is hitting near the bottom it turns the wood into fine ash by the opening. I was thinking maybe more overhang on the top would keep the smoke inside. Well I did something right as the stove drafts great. It is 7x10.

Your stove seems to have a smaller opening too.



I don't know if the door or opening means anything. The only issue with my Kifaru door was the flap got very lose. It would slip and kill the fire. The general advice I got on the Kifaru MB was to tap the rivet. But this didn't work for me. The other thing was to drill the rivet out and replace it. Again it didn't work. I think there is a washer between the door and flap that made all of these things harder. In the end I had to trash the flap and put a screw with washer over the area so not to have my screw up looking me in the face.



I am thinking this problem does not happen often. I just use the stove more than most. Tend to run it hot too. Still works.

On the topic of the Kni-co stove what do you think Ed. Maybe have the intake pipe deeper inside the fire box? Then again maybe I am not using it right and the fault is with me. Would not be the first time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Woods,

My guess, is the ratio of height to width is a bit too much. I know when Patrick & I were doing prototypes, we started with the large stove being 20 long by 9 wide bt 9 hgh. It smoked something terrible, so we cut down the height to 8 and everything was just right.

I have a chart somewhere on the ideal ratio of flue diameter to stove box cubic inches. I'll see if I can dig it up for you.

Same thing happened when I prototyped the Para stove. I had a 2 3/4 flue and went on a backpack elk hunt for the 1st burn test. I about sufficated myself. Went to a 3" flue and all was well.

It also depends on the wood, as you know well. When I was doing prototypes on the Arctic series, 4 3/4" worked fine with good lodgepole and ponderosa, but with punky alder and spruce, we needed to go up to 6".

You also cold try riviting a piece inside the front to make the draft come in higher.

PM me with your address and I will send you a new front for your stove.

Ed T

Ed T.

Wow thanks. I will fire off that PM. You guys have great customer service.

So on the topic of stoves I see what you are saying. I used the size of my small stove when building my homemade round one. I guess this was a good move on my part still I cut an 1/2 inch off so the stove would fit in a molle side pocket. The smoke on the Kni-co tossed me for a loop as I can run my small Kifaru stove with the door open once it is burning good.

"You also cold try riviting a piece inside the front to make the draft come in higher"

On the top or bottom?

Interesting I have had the opposite experience with width to heigth ratios and find taller and less wide burns better.

I got the idea from Craig MacDonald an Ontarion who has researched the tent stove issue since the 70's and use to write for Mors Kochanski's short lived magazine.

The sizes of stoves he makes and sells (decades old proven designs):

1400CuInch 8"wx10"hx18"long 3" pipe fast heating/short burns the smallest practical size (I agree) 7.5 pounds

2800CuInch 10"wx 13"h x 20"L 4"pipe. 19 pounds
3900CuInch 11.75"H x 15"h x 22" L 4" pipe 25 pounds
4800CuInches 11.75W x 17"h X 24" L 5" pipe 31 pounds

For most winter use in a wall tent Craig will recommend the 3900 Cu Inch as about right.

north61

I have used smaller stoves than 1400 CC and found them very pratical. You have to add in the backpack factor and shelter size. True I would carry the biggest stove my pack and back will allow. But with a little shelter like this I don't want too much stove.



I mean the shelter is a little over 3 lbs and the stove under 3 lbs. 6 lbs is not so bad. For the Pulk sled I could afford to pack a larger stove and bigger shelter. As it stands a Kifaru 4-man and small stove (or my homemade stove if the trip is shorter) is about it. That comes in at about 10 lbs based on what I take with it. Liners etc.

Sometimes I just pack the stove. This is for areas that don't allow open fires and I don't want the smoke etc of a hobo.



2 lbs 13 oz makes for a nice cooking area with some extra heat when sleeping under the stars. Or under a tarp just in case of a little rain.





or alot of rain.



Then there is that lost in the woods thing. I see lots of uses for a tinny portable stove. A longer burning stove is great and that is what got me going on the Kni-co thing. Once I work out the right way to get it burning. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But this would never replace a take down stove. Large or small. It is just so easy to pack in.