Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Whats the deal with little or no Remington or Winchester brass?

Has Remington and Winchester opted to get out of the business of offering brass for the reloading market? Seems Winchester and Remington have turned over brass production to Hornady, Lapua, Nosler & Privi. Yet there Is a little ammo to be found. Why very little or no brass?

17 fireball and 22 hornet are two offerings I have been watching for a long time now with nothing to be seen except a little factory ammo. I've been hoping commodity prices lowering just might encourage Remington in Winchester to get back into the supply business for those who prefer to roll their own.

Did give in and picked up a few factory 17 FB ammo recently. Must say that 17 FB 25 gr HP ammo is shooting quite well.

Ammo vs brass is probably a question of profit margin.

I haven't seen ANY new Remington brass in a couple years. What's out there is leftover older production. There's a little bit of Winchester .222, .223, .243, .270, and '06.

It's a different world than we lived in about 3 years ago and because of it, I've changed my process when it comes to new guns. I buy the brass first and don't buy a gun 'til I have enough to feed it.

OK Hornady, Lapua & Privi manage to operate a profitable business when commodity prices were high. Why not Remington and winchester?

If a CZ 17 fireball rifle is offered in the coming year like I understand they just might in at least a limited production run through Whittakers. By your reasoning guys should be stocking up on ammo now, and or making there own brass from the high quality Lapua 221 FB brass.

I might pick up the high quality Lapua 221 FB brass to be formed, though I would wait to get the rifle before starting to form the brass.

Remington has not offered new brass in over three years. Come to think about it, I haven't bought a new Remington rifle in over three years.

No rifle ammo to be offered, how can you expect to sell a firearm. You're right it is a different world.

I think TOM has it correct. Profit margin is better on production ammo than selling brass. With the demand still being high on ammo, including backlogs - most brass is going straight into production.

I too have been buying brass first then the rifle after finding enough to feed it.

It will be very interesting to see how quickly they sell out if they ever get back to the hard to find brass that varminters love. I know I'm waiting with intention to stock pile in most small calibers.

Hunterapp: Back when the 17 Remington Fireball was "new" I bought one of the fancier Remington 700 Varminters - its called a 700 VSF.
All I could get back then for testing and set-up was the Remington factory ammo (Remington 20 grain Accu-Tips).
I mounted a Nikon 6.5x20 scope on it and took it all to the range.
It shot SO well that first range session (after barrel break-in) that I considered just using factory ammo and not even handloading at all for it.
I took that Rifle and factory ammo to the range on two more occasions that month back in 2,007 and the LARGEST group (all five shotters at 100 yards) out of ten I shot measured, .586"!
Again, that was THE largest grouping.
It was a long time til I found factory brass for that Rifle but I eventually did.
I settled on the wonderful Berger 25 grain bullet for my best all around load/bullet.
I have NOT seen any Fireball brass on a gunstore shelf in 2+ years!
I do not know why.
I suspect, as others have pointed out, that the Remington, Winchester and Federal mentality is "there's MORE profit in selling factory ammo than in selling brass"!
Sad fact that.
I get calls all the time from friends looking for this brass or that brass and Varmint calibers are especially rare/sought after it seems.
Sadly I think that many American ammunition/component makers/sellers will never again stock stores shelves with ample supplies of brass like was the norm just a few years ago.
And again I suspect the profit driven motive behind this situation.
Good luck with the 17 Fireball I know I sure love mine.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There may or may not be more profit in selling ammo, but one fact almost always overlooked in threads on the subject is that far more people don't handload than do--and if handloaders really want brass, they can always get it by buying ammo. If a shooter doesn't handload, empty brass doesn't do him any good.

As a result, if demand for ammo is high (and it has been for quite a while now) it makes more sense for the two biggest ammo companies in the U.S. to use their brass to make ammo, than set aside enough to satisfy the demands of handloaders, especially since many handloaders these days tend to want a "lifetime supply," however many cases they think that is.

I ran into the brass supply problem earlier this year after buying a 7mm-08. I hadn't owned one in a while and didn't have any brass (did have plenty of .308's, but also have more than one .308 and wanted to use it in them). 7-08 brass was very scarce, but I did find a good sale on Hornady American Whitetail ammo loaded with the 139-grain Interlock Spire Point--which is the primary bullet I intended to handload anyway. Some basic math showed I'd be getting the brass for a pretty darn good price after using up the ammo (and these days I generally prefer Hornady brass to R and W anyway), so I ordered 5 boxes. Per usual, it shot under an inch in my rifle, at just about exactly the advertised velocity.

Yeah, I know that shooting factory ammo is a strange concept to many of us, but times have changed, and I'm not sure they're ever going to be the way they used to be again.

Obama said he wanted to transform America.

I don't doubt that Remington and Winchester are the two biggest ammo companies in the U.S. yet today but if so I'd think still a smaller and declining share of the market.

There is a tremendous assortment of U.S. made cartridge cases e.g. see .223/5.56 brass on the market including ATK and General Dynamics which are names I know and Silver(?) and others which I don't know and Doubletap which I don't associate with rifle brass and so it goes. But under brass for the .223 Remington cartridge by Remington, Midway says $0.34 - $0.40/Piece Unavailable - Limited Production. Brass for the .30-'06 Springfield is readily available but not per Midway from Remington or Winchester $0.50 - $0.56/Piece Unavailable - Limited Production

Mostly I'm asking for somebody who knows to talk a little bit about changes in the market place not just from the wild and crazy demand side but from the supply side with some historical perspective. Time was Olin started by making the brass and St. Marks was a place and not a powder company name. As far as I can tell the current folks would rather sell the Winchester name than engineer and market the products themselves. Just as Winchester under Olin was pretty well integrated so too Remington under DuPont was part of a conglomerate with IMR and all the rest under one tent - not anymore. What follows from that for shooters?

Looks to me as though the current ownership/management at Remington doesn't want to compete in a commodity market and likely sees no value added by the Remington name in a commodity market - money has to be scarce in that group? Shortening the line as Hornady has done makes sense, abandoning the remaining market to Hornady and others puzzles me.

When I first started loading for 300 Weatherby it was cheaper for me to load 300 H&H brass and blow it out than it was to buy Weatherby branded brass. Those days are gone for sure.

If there is so much market demand, you'd think that some manufacturer, PP or S&B maybe, would step in to fill the void and harvest those reloaders' dollars that aren't being spent on Remington and Winchester/Olin brass.

John is correct, as usual.
I am repeatedly, repeatedly amazed at how many people don't reload. They'll have scads of iron in the safe and boxes and boxes of factory fodder.
And they keep buying it, at prices ridiculous to us handloading fools. So as long as there's brass that can be made into factory food that SELLS, that's where it's gonna go.

Shucks Seems we may have had an impact on the available 17 fireball ammo on line. day after I mentioned 17 fireball brass in this thread, the least expensive source of ammo was cleaned out. Today I can't find ammo at any price. Good thing I stocked up when the price was right and ammo was available.

Still hoping for some brass though I am not holding my breath. Beginning to think Nosler or Lapua will be offering 17 fireball brass B4 Remington offers another limited run.

O well If I should run out 17 FB brass is nice to know we can make our brass to order from some of the fine Lapua 221 FB brass with a bullet seater die and a full length die in the case of the 221 FB parent case. Neck turning likely would be advisable if not necessary.

Some times guys shake their head at me as to why I would bother reloading. I shake my head also, not at myself or other reloader folks though.

Dunno about Lapua .221 FB brass, but I've necked down Remington .221 FB and the necks didn't need turning when used in factory chambers.

I'm glad I started loading 300 wby when R-P brass was cheap as dirt and good chit. That was the only way I could afford to shoot my big gun....

Bottom Line Looks like I may need to cross the 17 FB brass off my christmas list for this year and perhaps even next.

Santa,

I have a early march birthday- that would work also.

Lots of Remington and Winchester brass out there, just in factory ammo right now.

Hornady Whitetail, 270 Win 130's $18.99/20. My cost to load NPT 2nds is $11.03/20.

Last time I checked I made more than $8.00/hr. Not worth the time to monkey with it.

Winchester brass in the white and blue bags were manufactured by Winchester. Supposedly Olin is no longer in the brass manufacturing business. The Winchester brass in the Red and Black printed bags is supposedly made by Hornady.

CraigD

That sounds about right. Disappointing to me to see less competition out there. Hats off to Hornady. Looks like they will be or are the major US manufacturer of centerfire ammo today. Most all others seem to be jobbing out ammo production over seas all to often.

My gut is telling me I may find Nosler or Hornady 17 FB brass b4 Remington is offering brass again.

Get the tar and feathers.

Brass is still listed on their website.

I dunno maybe it is true. Cabelas had one bullet I was looking at last week, now gone. Try finding 30-06 brass.

Threads like this have been going on for a few years. I could see it during the big shortage. But after the election I would think it wouldn;t be an issue. Maybe seasonal production, but we are coming on fall.

Because the rumors have been going on so for so many years, I think maybe its not true. But given I can't find stuff, maybe. Granted we have gone through mass buy upsand shortages before.

I emailed starline last winter asking when they would start 30-06, since they are doing some bottle necks. They said working on it, and next year. More people should email them for calibers they want.

Zerk,

Are you kidding about .30-06 brass? I just checked the three websites where I order most of my handloading components. Two had four brands of .30-06 cases in stock, and the other had five. The brands included Federal, Lapua, Hornady, Norma, Nosler and Winchester.

Or are you simply one of those guys who believes that if their local stores don't have some kind of shooting product, nobody else does? During the rimfire "shortage" one guy from Montana kept posting here about the road trips he and a couple of buddies periodically made around the western half of the state, looking for rimfire ammo. They never found much, but in the meantime many other people were checking the Internet (which costs a lot less than several tanks of gas) and finding rimfire ammo at decent prices, more than often enough to keep shooting a lot.

MD,

How has your experience with newer production Winchester brass been? Is it back up to snuff?

m

The last I remember purchasing was some .222's a couple of years ago. It was fine, but mostly I've buying Hornady, Lapua, Norma or Nosler brass, since I can actually find them when needed.

Mule Deer,

Zerk is the latest troll around here... so give him his due just attention...

As far as brass goes, I have access to plenty of stuff...

its just not brand new in bags...

I had several sources for it, until I found out Brassman had relocated from Nevada to
just a couple of miles from my house.

He is a forum member here.. and he doesn't have every thing under the sun, but
he sure has a lot of different calibers available and brands...cleaned brass at real
reasonable prices, especially considering the market and availability.

I also picked up a while ago, brass made from Lake City into 17 Fireball and 17 Remington
thru High Plains Brass in Illinois....for $35 a hundred. Its quality in 17 Fireball was as good
as some of the Remington Factory brass I had left over from loading ammo for a friend of mine
who is elderly.

and then there is the factory brass in loaded ammo route.

consider the economics... in an experiment, I picked up a Box of Federal 243 brass...

shot it with the 80 grain bullets that it was loaded in...

and playing around...I've annealed it every 4th reload, and showed a little prudence at the
powder scale.... So far they are on their 40th reload...get tumbled every 4th reload or so also..
so they look great...

You just have to think differently than you use to in regards to brass...

I've got no shortages of about anything I happen to need.

They have. My last 500 pieces of 22-250 were priv and it's just as good as any Remington or Winchester I've had. So long as I can get it then screw Winchester or Remington brass. The only brass I'll go out of my way for is lapua, everything else is just run of the mill.

In the last 30 years I've yet to fire a round of centerfire ammo from the factory & I'm not about to change. Half the fun of shooting is loading my own ammo, I'm not buying factory loaded ammo just to get the brass or for any other reason. If Winchester or Remington don't want to sell me brass someone else will.

The only brass I've seen in any quantity over the last year has been Hornady, Lapua, Norma, and Starline. I was in a LGS who had some bags of Winchester brass, but not much of it.

I, too have been buying factory ammo to use and to get brass.

I have bought quite a bit of both Fiocchi and Privi ammo with some of the "Perfecta" brand FMJ ammo in .223 and .308. The Perfecta brass has been very uniform, and, although marked .308 & .223, they weigh more like 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO brass.

I haven't had any issues with Fiocchi or Privi's brass. They both seem to be high quality products in both .308 and .223, and the Perfecta is as good as any Lake City stuff from the last ten years.

Ed

Seafire,

I know Zerk is a troll, but once in a while I just can't let some really stupid troll-statement pass. I mean, if somebody wants to be an effective Internet troll, at the very least they should post something halfway possible--not about a supposed .30-06 brass shortage.

The infamous Lee24 finally broke the believable barrier too often and too blatantly, the reason he disappeared. Maybe something like that will happen with Zerk soon. He doesn't seem as bright as Lee24. Not that ol' Lee was a genius, but most of the time he could spell easy words correctly.

10/4 John...

You'd think if you were going to troll, you'd at least pick a handle, that you didn't pick Jerk and then drop
the J for a Z.....

I'm sure he's a regular... just no one has picked out which one yet.

I'll never understand the mind set of these Troll types anyhow...

best regards!

I am saying I could not find remington 30-06 brass.There have been rumors they are getting out of the component business. Cabelas, Midway, Amazon, Bass Pro, and some other odd ones that showed up on a google search, did not have remington.

I see plenty of brass in the stores, just not remington. See plenty of winchester, hornady, ect


Maybe remington runs batches certain times of year. I was looking at some bullets last week, now gone, from Cabelas.

As for winchester, I got some bags,but haven't loaded it yet. For handgun, a few times I wonded if it sized hard, for store bought loads.

LMAO!

Right now.

Somebody could call zerk a retard, but that would be a compliment.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Remington-reg-Unprimed-Rifle-Brass-Per/1160414.uts

Well here is an actually link. No brass. How about you put up a link? Or simply an explation. Why it is isn't showing up?

101x27.99 does not equal you number. Since only cart only shows 101. Maybe I am just missing something or maybe you are full of it. I don't know what you would have to gain by faking this. Normally I would try to give a benefit of doubt, and figure I am missing something. Maybe not all 101 are brass. But when my link says they are out. I wonder.

Other than polishing his knob, why don't you put up a link?

Here...
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Remington-reg-Unprimed-Rifle-Brass-Per/1160414.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D734095080%26CQ_search%3D30-06%2Bbrass

Link is not hot so you'll have to copy and paste it in the address bar. It takes you to the remington brass page and you can choose your caliber from there. 30-06 is in the list and is even on sale!

It's in stock. Get your credit card out and buy some.

So what happened????? 10 minutes later my link is showing all in stock, when all it had was 30-30.

I bet I had my store selected and was checking store inventory. Because when I go back to my store, its out of stock. I also restarted which erased my store selection from this weekend.

I got everything I need too. But not every brand. Remington has been odd lately. Where it is normally the one I get. Maybe seasonal production. Local cabelas is not selling it. Fleet Farm switched to Winchester. Midway is coming up only with nickel and out, for Remington.

This is a long rumor, and not one I made up. Google it. Maybe its not true. Again maybe just limited runs. Would think everything would be in full production. Stores are stocked with most things.

I'm afraid you might be right.

No knob polishing. Got too many Remington 06 brass to load

Iam fairly new to reloading, I was wondering what are the opinions on lake city brass, I have been using winchester and hornady for 220 swift and 22-250