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North,

Interesting observation on your experiencies. Could be that the height to width ratio works either way. Could be thet the problem occurs when the width and height are close to even.

I have been building stoves since the early 70's and I still have a lot to learn.

Ed T

Ed T

Woods,

I would try riviting the piece on the bottom.

Here is my ratio that I have found works well for pipe to stove box. I'll use the medium stove as an example. With a box of 12 x 9 x 8, it has 864 cubic inches. The pipe for the four man tipi is 94" x 3.5" diameter.

Area of a circle is square of diameter X .7854, so 3.5 x 3.5 x.7854 = 9.62 x 94 (the pipe length) = 904.

Divide 904 by 864 (stove volume) and you come up with 1.04.

This is close to ideal. I have gone as low as .66, but the closer you stay to 1 the better the draw.

Ed T

Great Thread....as my small stove is a smoker I assumed small wouldn't work but I just might have to make some mods.

EdT Thanks for the input...nice to know there is more than one way to skin the cat.

Thanks for the info Ed T and the great customer service on my small Kifaru stove.

I use an 84-inch pipe on my small stove for the 4-man and a 5-footer for the Paratipi. The stovepipe is 3-inches but it tends to change shape some during the burn. I don't know if that affects the draw or calculations. I tested the Kni-co with the 5-footer so maybe some burns with the 7-foot pipe are needed. I am going to clamp a piece to the bottom first to see if it helps. If it does than I can adjust the size before riveting.

razorsharp1

I have seen stoves like that before. Never got one due to the small cooking area but sounds like a nice stove just the same.

Woods, did you get a response to your email yet?

I had some stove size questions when I ordered mine, and talked with "Richard," who was very helpfu. I didn't ask, but he kinda sounded like the boss-man.

BTW, I orderd a 94" pipe (5") for the Packer. I'm hoping a long pipe combined with the long/narrow stove config gives me a smoke-free insurance. We'll see.

Woods,

One of the great benefits of the verticle stove is that I mount it to the tipi pole. So it is elevated off the ground. No legs. This allows for a shorter stovepipe. Perhaps an even bigger benefit, though, is the floor space that it opens up by having it elevated. I did not plan for this benefit when designing the thing but found it one of the most useful improvements in practice. The wood, or anything else that needs to be dried, can be stowed beneath the stove. No more burned sleeping bags or accidental kicking of the stove. And having the stove at head height when sitting is much more ergonomic and makes for easier feeding. When car camping and using chairs the stove can be moved up even higher. No more leaning down to feed.
Its not even a pound heavier than the Kifaru large stove. Very backpackable, but items have to be stowed inside to utilize the space. This has not been a problem for me. I have a sacrificial stuff bag that I use to line the inside of the stove to protect gear from soot. Works fine.
No need for snow platform either, obviously, except the tipi pole still needs one.

rz

rz,

I'd love to see a picture of your stove.

Ed T

Ok...I know its been explained a thousand times but I need it told one more time--how do you attach pictures?

rz

If you email the photo to me and I will do it.

Daytraderwon@yahoo.com

I got them. Will post the photos later today. I like the stove.

razorsharp's stove.













Looks great. The only question I have is if the stove will weaken the Al pole. I don't think so as it is not in direct contact with the pole. Also size and methods etc of constuction. I am guessing that the pipe will have to be at a small angle for the jack.

At first I isolated the stove from the pole, not knowing much about metallurgy. Then I talked with an engineer who said I could go well over 500 degrees without affecting the pole, theoretically. I got temp readings of only 150 degrees at the junction of the stove/pole, so I removed the isolators. I've been using it like this for a year or so and no indications of trouble.

The stove pipe does not angle. Also, the screen holder is not steel. I used the leftover stove pipe material to make a collar where the screens sit inside, not removable during usage. So the stovepipe slides over the collar and rests on the stovetop. This may contribute to improved drafting as there are no slits for the screens, and one less seam in the the pipe system.

Its nice becaue the ash can be slid out with a stick, through the bottom compartment and carried outside so the stove never has to be removed.
The range of dampening goes from total extinquishing to enraged furnace.

This prototype has worked so well I just haven't pursued a final draft. Its heavier than it needs to be but I don't mind. The mounting hardware is excessive in size and strength and the top and bottom sections overlap the stove body more than they need to. I could probably shave at least a quarter pound if I wanted.

I always thought that this idea was possibly an answer to the stove/paratipi problem, where the stove sits in the middle of the living area. If I was going to buy another paratipi I would order the stoveport moved toward the peak, build a smaller stove, and mount it to the main pole. You would have to move around it to exit the tipi but I don't think it would be a problem with a smaller version of this stove. It sure would make a big difference in living area space as it does in my 8-man.

rz.

That is pretty slick Razorsharp.

Veddy interesting. That's quite an innovative idea Razor!

I take it you don't cook on the stove though?

Razor
That pushed me to try my 4 dog bannerman on my Kif 12 man pole. I was thinking of this very setup and then you posted. I like your setup....

Thanks, guys...and thanks WW for doing the pictures for me.

No, I don't cook much. I do boil water for meals and hot drinks and the stove is fine for that. I never know if I will want food or drink with the stove not in use so I generally cook on a backpacking stove anyway.

I've thought about an optional lid platform that would lay over this lid but would extend out in every direction past the stove so that there would be more cooking space. It would be a large flat square that would have a flange on the bottom to pick up the top bracket screw.

Another option that could be used with this stove is a platform with a set of legs so that the stove does not have to be attached to the pole. This way the stove could be used outside the tipi.

Other benefits of this design are the ease of starting the fire, the length of burn, and the quick and easy setup. The fire can be lit from below, from the lower compartment so all the wood can be set just as with a home fireplace. And the fire takes off in a hurry. Once it gets a bed of coals it will accept anything that can be fit through the door. I have put large, fist-sized hunks in and the fire does not bog down. So burn times are long and more consistent.

My entire 8-man tipi fits inside the stove along with stove pipe and hardware, with the tipi pole sections sticking out the top. Then the stove/tipi get put in a stuff-sack and that goes in my pack, upright. To set it up I simply empty the stove and reach in through the door and pipe hole to put a nut on the screws then I press the stove to the tipi pole and tighten the clamps.

I am one of the few that thinks the stove port should be moved forward in the paratipi. My small stove might have some changes made to it after looking at these pics. Woods, do you think it is possible to do this with a small stove in the para as Razor shows? Would free up tons of space.

My Kni-Co "Packer" stove arrived this evening. I haven't weighed it yet, or fired it up, but my initial impression of it's construction and attention to detail is very good. It's supposed to be a Christmas present so it'll get warm on the 25th.

There is one other consideration that should be mentioned for anyone contemplating one of these pole-stoves.....the stove may be adding stress to the pole. Most of the stress, I would think, is driving downward as opposed to outward so I think the 8-man pole can handle it. But there is a certain amount of pull that the stove puts on the pole outward, trying to tip it over. With the stove mounted on the second section I feel the leverage is minimal. Still it is worth noting and one needs to understand that they operate at their own risk.

A bigger concern would be with the paratipi. A slightly smaller stove might not scale down this concern proportionally so there could be a much greater amount of stress on the paratipi pole with, say, a 6" version of this stove. Also, consider that the stove may hinder pole adjustment.

Nice job razor.

You can also get by with a smaller snow platform when camping on top of snow. You don't need one for the stove, just the pole.

I would be concerend about the pole being rigid enough on anything smaller than a 4 man.

I've been playing around with a pole mounted airtight. It does provide more room.

I't pretty cool to see all the ideas that people come up with.

Ed T