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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,836 Likes: 6 |
Just did an inventory and I'm fairly well fixed, but now that I've got a .223 again, I need to pick up some more SRs. I'd be happy to try the Tulas, but they're just not available locally, and my limited needs make paying hazmat too pricey.
One of the older packs of CCIs had the price marked on it- $1.45!
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
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Where does one find foreign primers? I've never seen them here in PA.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,236 Likes: 20 |
I've seen the Tula's at a gun show or two also, granted, a year or so back.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
Powder Valley has not had Tula Primers for a while. I wonder what's going on with that...
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1 |
So, in a nut shell: --No one knows how to actually make contact with Win Ammunition and to be able to get any relief from the problems with their WLR primers.
--Everyone is just quietly going to other makers as available and letting their Win primers set or selling them off to unsuspecting users.
I was hoping that someone would actually be in the know or the loop on this.
I guess if I label primers with a disclaimer at gun show, I would them with the knowledge that their are some issues. Not the best solution in my mind, but... Tim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,836 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,836 Likes: 6 |
This is the place: http://www.winchester.com/Product-Service/Pages/Contact-Us.aspxI don't know what they'll do for you, but others have reported that they will send out a truck for defective primers, replace them, and reimburse you for repairs to your rifle. I requested information about bad lot numbers and got back a form letter. Perhaps a complaint about actual damage will do better. There's another thread here about this with a list of lot numbers known to have issues, plus some added single lot numbers. I spent an hour or so surfing around and came up with a whole bunch more from various forums, more than I have time to type in. Gven that I've got maybe $50 worth of WLRs, none of which are from the reportedly bad lots, it's easiest to just bail on them. I'll try to sell or give them away, with full disclosure, and move on.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,836 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,836 Likes: 6 |
Powder Valley has not had Tula Primers for a while. I wonder what's going on with that...
John I've never visited their site before today. Looks like they have good prices, but seem to be out of everything everyone else is out of. It's one more place to look, though. Thanks.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697 |
In the past my local Sportsmans Warehouse has had Tula primers. But now-a-days they seem about as common there as Federal 210M's or 215M's...
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
One thing about Tula small-rifle primers (and some other brands) is they offer several models, which differ in cup hardness/thickness.
The Tula SR primer I'm using is their "softest," the KVB-223. Despite the model name, they don't recommend it for AR-15's, or any other cartridge where pressures are normally much over 50,000 PSI.
But I load a lot of cartridges where standard SAAMI pressures don't exceed 50,000, including the .17 Hornady Hornet and .22 Hornet, and 50,000 is the SAAMI maximum average pressure for the .222 Remington. The KVB-223 works fine in all three of those rounds, and I've also had no problems with it in the .17 Fireball (SAAMI MAP 55,000), where accuracy was as good as with any other primer, and in normal loads in bolt-action .223's. But I usually use tougher-cup primers in the .223, because I might use any of my .223 handloads in an AR-15.
If you tend to push pressures by working up loads until you encounter "pressure signs," you'll probably encounter some with the Tula KVB-223. It would not, for instance, be a primer I'd recommend for the .223 Ackley Improved, or any of the factory rounds where SAAMI pressures (and hence published loading data) exceed 55,000 PSI. The list of such cartriges might surprise you. As an example, while the .17 Fireball's SAAMI MAP is only 55,000 PSI, the .221 Fireball's is 60,000.
Some other small-rifle primers aren't recommended for higher-pressure rounds, including the Remington 6-1/2. I describe the history and reasons behind all this in my new handloading book, but thought posting a caution here would also be a good idea.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4 |
Just a note: This is of course indirect evidence, but chrono results suggest the S&B 5.3LR primer is pretty mild. In a number of tests** it has been about 25 fps behind the CCI200 with several powders.
**Ten shot strings over an Oehler 35P
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1 |
Thanks Pappy348 I will put in my complaint and see what response comes back. Tim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075 |
I need to reload some 308 ammo for an AR10. But I can’t find any CCI #34 primers around here or in Houston. I don’t want to order off the web because of the hazardous material shipping charge. What would be a safe primer for a 308 auto? I have CCI 200 & 250, Federal 210, 210M, 215 & 215M, Winchester LR and Wolf LRM in my loading room. The Winchester LR primers are older and I have had no problems loading them in 25-06 and 308 bolt guns.
Richard
NRA Life Member TSRA Life Member
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4 |
I've gathered that the CCI200 is fine for avoiding slam fires in M1A loads.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
I had a talk with a long-time CCI employee about the mil-spec primers a year or so ago. It turns out they don't have thicker cups, as many people believe, or even "lower" anvils. Instead they have more rounded anvils, which helps prevent slam-fires when primers are seated slightly "proud" of the case-head.
The biggie is making sure any of them are seated deeply enough, but I have run thousands of BR-4's and 450's in various AR-15's with zero slam-fires.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
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Dang it, now I need to swap from WLR and WLRM to Federal.
I used to be happily ignorant...
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,449 |
Some other small-rifle primers aren't recommended for higher-pressure rounds, including the Remington 6-1/2. I describe the history and reasons behind all this in my new handloading book, but thought posting a caution here would also be a good idea.
I know what you mean about the 6-1/2s. I was using 7-1/2s in my .222, but switched to the sixes after reading Pet Loads, even though Ken's update used the sevens. Backed 1/2 grain off my powder charge to keep the primers looking pretty after firing. May have picked up a tenth or two in accuracy, maybe not. But, I've got a brick to go through, and minute-of-Coffeemate-bottle at 300 meters is fine for me.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Just did an inventory and I'm fairly well fixed, but now that I've got a .223 again, I need to pick up some more SRs. I'd be happy to try the Tulas, but they're just not available locally, and my limited needs make paying hazmat too pricey.
One of the older packs of CCIs had the price marked on it- $1.45! LOL I still have packs of primers in the CENTS range of pricing... I have a powder can, sans powder, IIRC, somewhere, around 1.?? or 2.?? dollars...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,323
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,323 |
What year did problems with Winchester primers seem to surface? All my WLR's are marked with a sharpie purchased from the 2005-2007 year range. (have a good supply) They are all I use to load the LeverEvolution rounds for our nine 30-30 rifles.
I did once see a partial lot number list but was wondering what approximate years they were produced?
Take your kids and your grand kids huntin' and shootin'.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,933 Likes: 2 |
Thanks Pappy348 I will put in my complaint and see what response comes back. Tim PM sent Roadkill.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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