Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

I figured it was as drone as well - just because of how easily it tracked the truck - but the side angles seem low to me to be too high in the air

There are too many judgments based on Bias from both sides without knowing more facts that could change the perspective completely. What I am getting from this is a common consensus that it is a justified standard in general to use deadly force "Just in case". This concept scares the hell out of me, do they actually train Officers to think this way? Dad and Uncle Chuck as old School law Officers would be ashamed to hear of such a concept as this.

I know one thing...If the meeting they were going to with the Sheriff and Towns people might have brought about a resolution and peaceful end to this stand off it would have made the Feds look bad. No way in hell would they have let this happen, an example of what happens when you challenge authority was required in order to save face and justify all the effort and dollars spent on this situation.

My main curiosity and question is this, Could it be that they were fired on at the first stop and forced into a fight or flight situation and in immediate fear for their lives even though they were complying to directions? This would be a game changer as to who actually first escalated the situation to this end.

its just the reality of the world we live in now

there is no way a sane man is going to make the comments he made, run a road block, run out from his car and not have a very very high percentage of having lethal force used on him.

To your bigger point, protect and serve has been replaced with "get home safe tonight" as the police force motto which in turn has put them in a position where the public is the enemy they are in combat with.

Again, its a reality of the world we live in today.

and our federal government handing out armored plated vehicles, grenade launchers and the like to small town police forces is approval from them on these kinds of tactics and the overall mentality - although I did read that Obama told them to give that stuff back in the aftermath of public backlash about its misuse.

At a community meeting in Crane (Jan. 18), Bundy militia leader Ryan Payne advised that under the Constitution, "you have the lawful right to resist arrest to the point of lethal force" In that example he gave, it was killing a cop for arresting you for refusing to produce a driver's license.

Finicum was trying to win a fast draw contest with a bunch of people who already had their weapons trained on him, men who thought that at least some of the Bundy guys, including Finicum specifically, planned to try to kill them if an arrest was attempted. The results were predictable.

...you speculate.

Umm....

That would be a large majority of the posts here.

My main problem is the overwhelming self-interpretation and twisting of Constitutional Law. Reminds me of examples like the "Constitution Party" pushing and preaching the Constitution and "Freedom of Religion" as long as the Religion in question is understood to be a form of "Christianity". What?

For me I had to go back to the first domino that toppled and led to this unfortunate outcome. Even though the Official Narrative claims it was an "Occupation of a Federal Facility" it may have actually been completely legal for these guys to "Assemble and protest" in a public facility on public lands as long as they do not restrict anyone else's right to also come and go. Which it looks like they did not.

This is where the discussion truly needs to start. Were they actually breaking a law or not in the first place? From what I have been reading they may not have been unlawful and had every right to "assemble and protest" in a public facility on public lands as they claimed they were doing. Why were they not even charged with "Illegal Trespass" in this whole thing?

I would hope that someone in the aftermath investigates your points.

they're not charged with "trespass" , "occupation" or the like.

they're charged with "impeding the execution of duties of federal employees".

and they'll likely be adding lots and lots of "destruction of federal property" charges soon too. (I'm sure you've watched the videos of them bulldozing burial sites, fences, et al as well as thoroughly trashing the rooms in the main building).

they've done a whole lot more than "assemble and protest"....

Since when is destruction of federal property a crime? It happens every day in our Capital by our elected officials and nothing ever happened to them.

from what I have seen and read about this whole incident, he was set up, then murdered, by a dictatorship that selectively enforces laws, and selectively administers justice when doing so meshes with their goals.
We have an out of control, rogue government, at war with Citizens that push back. As I mentioned earlier, over the past 7 years, we have had a coup d'etat, and no one noticed.

Someone posted: "Finicum exits with both hands held high and then appears to put both hands down near his waste area when he is shot. No effort at all to give him aid. Just leave him lay there and bleed to death..."

I was a paramedic for many years, I have treated many, many gunshot patients.
The idea that a cop could "give aid" to a gunshot victim is rather far-fetched.
Yeah, if he got hit in the forearm, and the artery is pumping blood, if the cop put a tourniquet on it, it could save his life.
On the other hand, if he was shot in the forearm, and an artery was not hit, and the cop put a tourniquet on it, it could cause the arm to be so badly damaged that it would later need to be amputated. Easy to do more harm than good.

However most fatal wounds are to the torso. On a shot like that, there is NOTHING that a well-meaning bystander or cop could do to help the victim. This especially includes CPR, which is just worthless on trauma victims.

it is incomprehensible that this set up did not include paramedics on stand by, and at the site. If for no other reason, than to treat a wounded cop.

And as full well they should be if they trashed the place. But did "pending" charges such as these truly warrant a full sized, Grand Scale Federal occupation of a whole Community?

Just like they are now "pending"...these charges could have been brought up after the fact and dealt with on a smaller scale one by one.

Just saying I have trouble justifying the magnitude of action that resulted from such a Petty Charge...

IMO, I suspect it depends on how much damage they're continuing to do. It's not like they chose a random hangar in a deserted industrial park where waiting 'em out would be without consequence.

The damage they did / continue to do to the native american sites with the 'dozer may not be able to be undone later.

And keeping the biologists out of the refuge has temporal consequences as well. For example, the feeder water bodies to the main lake need to be treated for carp within the next two weeks, otherwise a decade of work goes up in smoke, threatening the viability of the entire ecosystem -- and by extension the entire Pacific Flyway.

they chose their "stand" exceedingly poorly....

I have to be honest and say that this is the first I have heard of these issues. Is there a possibility they may have been misconstrued? Digging with a Dozer doesn't always mean it was indeed a Native American Gravesite. I have heard that one over and over since I was real young, "You can't dig There! It's Sacred!" and it always came no matter where you were Digging.

But this does not justify Digging at all in the case of these guys.

So lock it down right at the Scene and take care of it as needed right there. I still see no justification for Occupying and intimidating a whole Community. This is not Iraq.

rost495 is a paramedic and has already chimed in on this.

Did you repeat these falsehoods enough you now believe them contrary to the video proving them false?

You claim rounds impacted the windshield but throughout the whole video the front windshield is intact and no bullet holes in the truck. These impacts are likely less lethal CS rounds that the FBI stated were used.

You claim in another thread that passenger indows were shot out even though the video shows all 4 passenger windows down at the first attempted stop and you admit by your above statements that the 18 yo witness states they had their hands out the open windows. How does LE shoot out windows that were down prior to this shooting?

The cops poured it on? WTF the FBI states 3 rounds were fired by officers and Finicum was hit 3 times.

Sadly the video and even your own statements nullify your delusional ramblings.

here's the thing on the carp abatement:

http://www.hcn.org/articles/carp-la...uld-set-back-conservation-by-three-years


http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/12/post_46.html


not only mucking up the carp control / water quality on the refuge but mucking up:

local commercial fishing jobs
local commercial processing jobs
local free fertilizer to the surrounding ranches

They threatened the Pacific Flyway? The fiends!