Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

Kingston...

Scott F is good folk....period...

Hell Scott's such a laid back, get along with everyone kind of guy, he's even put up with me for a week or so... and that's saying something about tolerance...

why I'm being honest here... I'm going to step in for Ingwe and the Montana Spell Check Police here...

People were posting that Finicum was reaching 'into his waste for a gun...'

you reach into your WAIST for your firearm...not your waste...

reaching into your WASTE is like reaching into your Trash for your gun....

So when Ingwe reads this, he'll know that this has already been addressed...

"you can thank me latter".. as our Campfire Yoda from Alaska Says...

Can you provide a link to or citation for the eye witness statements you're referring to?

They got more of an opportunity to surrender than Hammer would have given.

Can I ask you to re-read my post? It wasn't a flame.

The video isn't enough. There could very easily be more facts evident from ground video, or even audio. But, consider who's doing the releasing of that video and their motivation, and all bets are off unless the video is complete.

I can't conclude the police didn't shoot that rig from the quality of that video. Heck, why wouldn't they? Shooting it up would be consistent with their assertion that he was going for his gun, ran the roadblock, there were other (presumably bad) people in the car, etc

And the biggy, what other testimonies are you reading? Please link me to those. BUT EVEN THEN, consider that they might be written or oral statements made after the FBI had them in custody, and could therefore be corrupt by virtue of the FBI having struck an immunity or lessened sentence deal with them in exchange for a "massaged" testimony. Does anyone think the govt wouldn't do it? I put nothing past the guv.

I consider the girls testimony to have a much higher likelihood of having NOT been tampered with, but she could still be worng, miscounting from 3 to mean 100 shots.

Sam,

Finicum being shot and then left laying there like a shot coyote, concerns me also.. both as a citizen and someone who has worked as a paramedic...

But in the real world, with Protocol, the Feds are under no obligation to render aid to the shot 'suspect'....

and also protocol, they are obligated to render their own medical support if the scene isn't safe for them, which it was not with suspects still in the vehicle and the Cops not knowing if they were armed or not...

Sure they would render life saving procedures to one of their own under fire if need be to save their lives...they aren't going to let one of their own die or bleed out...

the average body only holds 6 litres of blood, and you loose one litre, you are pretty much screwed as blood flow can't keep the brain functioning...

hate to say it, but if nothing else... Finicum was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and his actions did him no favors... even his actions and verbage before he ever got into that pickup to drive up to John Day...

Personally I believe he was ordered to be sacrificed, ahead of time, to just show the rest of them, the Feds weren't screwing around....

everything I saw out in Burns when I was there, is that the Feds were going for maximum intimidation factor in everything they did...

The shoo'ed the press away from the compound and told not to come back even threatening them... at gun point...

yet in town they were being as high profiled as possible, and definitely strutting they were armed and heavily...even being intimidating when you were talking to them...

but even that not considered.... they were under no obligation or protocol to render aid to Finicum...or anyone else that might have been shot, until each of the others were in custody and made to not be a threat...

The Feds have shown and said all they are going to say on the subject...

I didn't take it as such....

just I know Scott, he's one of the good guys...
and you seem like a pretty darn decent guy also...

just hate to see, two decent guys get at odds on the forum, which I have seen in the pass...

maybe a knee jerk reaction on my part...

to quote Rodney King, can't we all get along???

and you have to admit, there has been a lot of name calling on this thread, based strictly over differences in opinions and interpretations...

You think someone should charge into deep snow to render aid to an armed and shot felony suspect while at least two other armed felony suspects are in the vehicle and NOT under control?

Would you say the same if it was a Crips or Bloods or MS-13 gang member or a Muslim?

That's a suicide mission to go out there at that point, without cover or concealment at close range and within the field of fire of at least two armed suspects.

There will, at a minimum, be more (many, I'm sure) pictures of the scene available at some point. I would think (hope) more video as well. Whether *we see it or just those that actually matter is another issue entirely. It's going to be irrelevant to some, through. The pics could show the truck without a hole in it and some would swear the feds fixed it.

For now, I'll take what I've seen. I understand FB's desire to it his belief in the female's story. Personally, I think she's FOS, but I'll allow that she could have been overwhelmed by the situation rather than a liar.

George

Scott,

dang, you nailed it.

13 pages only.

Guess I'm done now. No need to figure it out past your description.

Hope you're enjoying the rain/sun mix today. Maybe some snow tomorrow?

Geno

Lol...I understand what you say here. But I was with the understanding that I was supporting your stance in this debate.

Now you are complaining about how well the motor might or might not run because you don't like the Color it was painted?

You do realize there that are more than one creative style of expressive writing right?

It truly depends on who will be judging the Brush Strokes while reading it.

Sometimes it is wise not to Brandish...:)

This makes lots of sense. I've asked several times, "who was the shooter(s)?" It's not clear in the video who's doing the shooting. The man who came out of the woods, up on the hill, appears to possibly shoot with his left hand. From where and at what point the other 2 shots are taken doesn't seem to be evidenced by the footage. If, the FBI released this video knowing that the victim's erratic arm movements were a reaction to being shot, this would be a profound breach of the public's trust.

Yea, there's been some, but I really am impressed with the discussion. I wrote a long post yesterday celebrating this. It identified some of the things I've learned from this discussion and how it's influenced my internal dialog and thinking about my own bias. I decided not to publish it and spare you all. Thanks for the generous thoughts.

In the heat of the thread-- grammar, punctuation, spelling, and diction all suffer. Conjunctions and possessives seem to take the brunt of it. God bless our resident schoolmarms.

My post was meant more as sarcasm than humour.

Yes LEO presents was strong. That was meant to stop any big shoot out rather than to just kill someone. The numbers should have prevented any bloodshed. The non lethal rounds fired at the truck should have had the desired result to cause overwhelming panic and save lives. One man made a choice to end his life. His choice. I wish he had made a different choice but there is nothing I can do to change any of it.

Back to the cause. The Hammonds case stinks worse that a road hit skunk after three days in a hundred degree heat. It is a case than needs to be remembered not forgotten in the mess the Bundy bunch started. The charges and the prison terms are way out of line. The feds lording it over US citizens just for the fun of it must be stopped.

The Bundy bunch stepping in did more to hurt the Hammonds case than the did any good and this mess we are talking about now does more to bury the real problem.

Then there is the issue that one man decided to end his life by pulling a gun while being covered bu a bunch of LEOs leaving a bunch of fatherless kids. No one won here.

Look guys the question still remains...Were they barraged and ambushed at the first stop without true justification? This we may never know but should at least be a question in this whole mess.

It did not look to me like he was shot before dropping his hands but that is just me and we will not know unless body cam video is released. If it is not released then I may change my opinion based on that alone. I would also like to see close up pictures of the truck.

If only what he stated were true to this sitiation but sadly it isnt. This is a tactical operation, not a military operation, therefore any leo gsw victims will be moved to safety and then treated. Noone in the tactical world treats injured subjects out in the open!

The FBI also isnt the military and thus doesnt travel with military medics or medivacs, they too have PM trained individuals assigned to their team.

As far as medivac goes there are multiple air ambulance helos within 30 minutes of Burns and i wouldnt be surprised if one was spun up on its pad, but it wouldnt be a military bird.

Again what do i know i only actually was a Swat medic.

And your position and opinion should be respected Sir. Thing is there is a pattern to all this that truly needs to be exposed for what it truly is. I have stories to share from the 70's when the BLM "Took Over" the Grazing and Ranching Industry.

Things have not become better for the environment or ecology in these areas but they have indeed caused quite a few individuals to "Disappear" over the years. There is much more to this than what you see or what they share my Friend.

Lose a few of your own and it might just change your perspective of the real situation...

Have you even watched the enhanced videos? They show there is no holes in the truck. The girl is the only one who claims the truck was fired on, not Ryan Bundy who was in that seat. She claims 100 rounds fired but the truck is intact in the video. Not 1 part of her statement has been proven true by the video or anyone else present and in fact members of her group have stated she is wrong.

She is the only person to claim a shot was taken at the passenger window, noone else on scene collaborates that. Odd dont you think?