Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Professional dog trainer - Worth it?

As far as sending a dog off with a trainer, its worth its weight in gold. Training a trial dog is really no different than training a hunting dog. If you can get a dog out to summer camp, they will most likely see more birds in one summer than most dogs will see in a lifetime.

I can say this much, I have no need to carry a solar power generator on my back to keep control or sight of my dogs, 200 yards is bit out of range for my 20 gauge O/U, we try to say in the same woods as our dogs are hunting in.

Once again To each their own.

Funny. My 20ga O/U seems to kill those birds pointed at 200 yards just fine!

I got drawn for a quail quota hunt in GA this year. The plantation I got drawn for is also a plantation we trial. I hunted the plantation exactly how I trial it. At the end of the day, or group moved twice as many coveys, and killed more birds, than any of the other 8 groups that were hunting that day. I couldn't see my dog much of the time. But I didn't need to. I knew she would stay with us and show herself now and then. Thank god I had he GPS, because we would had never found her on point most of the time. The birds were buried in that day, and without a GPS, we would have never seen her on point. I'll take the bigger running dog that handles all day over the boot polisher that makes 30 yard casts. I'll also shoot a lot more birds!

Sure am glad we have somebody here that DOES know what he's talking about!


Actually I have been to field trials and Ive even hunted over field trial dogs...who, as you alluded to, made the transition between field trial and real field very smoothly. Also seen them good in the house with family/kids etc.


But any time you wan't to discuss training methodologies , get an undergraduate and a post graduate degree in Canine Developmental Science and we can discuss the neurological implications of inducive vs. compulsive training, and the timing and application of positive and negative reinforcement, and positive and negative punishment. If we are to discuss methodologies, I would like the playing field to be level.

If you can tell me how to turn a dog at 200-300 yards that's giving you the middle law while heading towards a dirt road with joe the farmer driving down it at 100mph, like you see in SD all the time, without an e-collar, I'm all ears!

well....you have have a point there!

Those of us that hunt with boot polishers simply call their name.

That is a tough one, the police dogs we train to get after a suspect must on occasion be called off before they make contact....its a liability thing if they bite the wrong guy...


They are HIGHLY motivated to the bite, and extremely hard to stop....just like a bird dog thats free lancing and feels he is out of your range of control.

Getting the K9 to stop on command is one of the most difficult parts of the training, but obviously it can be done and personally I find it best to start with building the obedience it takes at about 8 weeks.


I did it with my one and only bird dog....a long time ago when I was just learning, and my results were what could best be called "mixed"

There are your run of the mill Bird Dogs, which is what most of us are used to. Then there are good Birds Dogs and then there are great ones that are so hot you will burn your hand when you stroke their neck.

Most anyone can handle the first, a few the second and damn few the third. The third will take you breath away when they are on. Nor where the third born to dick around within shotgun distance.

Different posters are throwing all three into the same grouping which is a disservice to each.

E collars have their place used properly,and for the most part are an improvement compared to some of the things that went on prior.

I always do!! ;-). When I'm hunting I like the idea of always knowing where my dog is no matter what, and always having control if I need it. It makes the hunt a lot less stressful for me. However, in a trial the rush of watching your dog head over a hill at 500+ yards, and not knowing if you will see it again under judgement, is a huge rush as well. It's what makes trialing so much fun to me. Especially when you ride over the hill and find your dog standing with a limb find, and you know the judges are impressed. Obviously the level of steadiness that's best could be argued over while drinking beer, and we could drink all the beer in the country and we still not agree. I send my dog with a Pro because he can provide something I can't, which is thousands of wild birds every year. With that said, people send their dogs to Pros and expect magic. If you don't work with the Pro as well to learn how and when to correct the dog, then your just pissing money away.

Gary Lester has been interviewed and he talks about foot hunting every one of his All Age dogs. Too many people think dogs can't do both, and do it well. The dogs learn the game, they just have to be given the chance. One of the questions I asked my trainer before I commited to sending my dog to him was if he could foot hunt over his All Age dogs. His response was "every single one of them". All the trial dogs I've hunted over cut their speed in half, and their distance by more than that, when your not on a horse. Break out a horse and they all become totally different dogs.

No doubt, and you can-with training-bring a big running hot one in and a smart one will learn to pace itself. They know when they are on the line along with a competitor lunging right beside them.

Still the super hot field trial Dog is another animal vs a good walk behind gun Dog.

The horse is what we call a "trigger"...its presence tells the dogs the parameters of the game have changed. You would ( or perhaps you wouldn't) be amazed by the number of owners/handlers/ trainers that don't notice things like that.....
A good handler or trainer does and makes them work to his advantage. Dogs are 'triggered' by scores of things, most of which are a lot smaller than a horse!
A K9 knows when he's pulled out to do scent work that if he's working on lead with his collar, he's looking for dope, if he's had his harness put on, he's looking for a suspect...every gun dog Ive ever known cranks up when he sees a shotgun.......

Oodles of examples of this, but most don't notice them....

And I was just happy to have my 5mo old pup not run off and to bring a few bumpers back to me yesterday on a walk in the field...

That is a tough one and it is not always successful in the field. My stepson is a K9 handler and he has had 3 "mistake" bites with his dogs that I know of. A coworker is currently being sued for a dog that not only did not recall immediately upon turning on a bystander but also did not release immediately and needed its jaws pried off the person's arm. And both dogs and handlers have more than one national award for dog handling. In a similar vein, I have acted as the bite dummy on many occasions for several agencies and have seen this happen numerous times in training, demos, and tests. A dog is not foolproof in its willingness to do as commanded each and every time, it is something one needs to be aware of when handling a dog and how to best deal with such an instance is up to the handler/trainer.

I'm not going to comment whether an ecollar would have been a good choice or not (and I can see where it could be a benefit and where it would be a negative) but with a hunting dog, having a means of enforcing a command at a distance is often a saver of grief. Whether running towards a road with traffic, chasing unwanted game, or plain disobedience for a variety of factors, having the means to reach out and enforce a command at the moment can be very helpful. I would rather enforce the command at the instant rather than wait until the animal realizes to obey and then reinforce the desired command.

In my observance, there are different needs and results needed with a hunting dog and a service dog. The methods and results are often the same but the means of getting there are not necessarily so. Not many these days wish to or can spend 2-3 years getting their hunting dog into field shape though it is common and needed for this in service dogs. There are greater demands placed on the service dog which are not necessary with hunting dogs which require more time and often a different approach to achieve. There is a difference between the two types and there can be a lot to learn from both.

I'm there with you pointer. Did the same thing on Sunday. Some Canada Geese flew overhead while we were out and he was completely keyed in on them, which was pretty exciting.

I didn't know this thread would become so heated when I posted it. Lesson learned I guess. Thanks to all of you that provided information. We have decided that three months with a professional trainer won't hurt either the dog or us (aside from in the wallet I suppose) and in the long run it should help provide us with the dog we want.

SS

Dog trials are just like real hunting. Except for planted, pen raised birds.

Most, but not all.

There are Ruffed Grouse, Woodcock and Quail Championships which are ran on all wild Birds.

Wanna bet? While many trials do have planted birds, many do not. The cover dog trials are all wild birds trials, as are all of the chicken and sharptail championships run in the praries. So are many of the trials in the South. While many of the weekend trials run on planted hirds, many of the championships are wild bird trials. Again, another quote from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

So, most dog trials are run on wild birds? Or just a very small percentage?

Trial dogs make great hunting dogs, unfortunately most of the trial folks I have met are self-important douchebags.

It is where dogs are owned by horse show people.