Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Odd 223 groups - Suggestions

These groups are from 2 different rifles. Both rifles are Devcon bedded, free floated, wood stocked M77s. Both using 26.1gr TAC at different OALs. Just happened that this was the best powder charge for both rifles during workup. Armscor brass sorted into 1gr groups, fireformed and neck sized with a Lee Collet. Hornady 55gr SP to use for deer and because this has always been a very accurate bullet in every 22cal rifle I've ever tried it in.

Group 1 is from a 20in barrel, ultralight contour, MarkII. 1989 model. 0.010, 0.015, and 0.020 all shot 1.25 inch groups during OAL testing so I chose 0.015 off. Loaded a few and shot 6 into the same group and got this group, three tight shots and the other three went wide. 3100fps avg ES of 40



Next rifle is a 16.5in Hawkeye Compact. This one showed the most promise at 0.005 off at 5/8in. Loaded up a few and got this group, great horizontal but vertical sucks. 3050fps avg ES of 22


Any suggestions?
Start over with different bullet or powder?
Do ultralight barrels or short barrels tend to shoot worse than longer, normal ccntour ones? I've been reloading for a few years but this is my first time with and ultralight or very short barreled rifle.

What primer?


Try a mag primer

Forgot to add that info. Using CCI Magnum primers in both loads.

Well, try a different primer or a different bullet.

That said, typically light barrels ain't at their best when floated.

Not sure about the first group but the second one looks like you barrel may have been getting warm. Light, short barrels are pretty sensitive when they warm up.

Guess I should clarify that in the first group, the upper cluster is shots 1,4,6.

In the Hawkeye group, shots 1&2 are the top ones, 3 was the bottom shot, and 4-6 are clustered in the center.

I'd try a different bullet, or different powder, and not expect benchrest groups out of an ultra light barrel.

Hmmmm. That is the same bullet that I am having problems working up a decent load with. I have tried 4 different powders with a lot of different grainage, with no real promising results. I have loaded some 50 gr ballistic tips to try, but windy conditions at the same time that I have time, has kept me from testing them. Rifle shoots real good with some factory ammo. miles

Trust me, I'm not looking for 1/2in groups out of these rifles. What I am looking for is some sort of consistency. Multiple groups in the 1-1.5 inch range would be fine. It's just the jumping around from 1.25 to 2.5 inches that's annoying.

For my other rifles, I've always been able to find a load during the workup process, go home and load several at that charge and OAL, and go shoot fairly consistent groups. That has not been the case with either of these rifles. I'll shoot a decent 3 shot group, go home and load more, then the next trip out they splatter all over the place. On the bright side, it has given me a greater appreciation for the other rifles in my safe!

How did the rifles group during workup? If bad workup loads are under 1 1/2" I'll work on dialing them in. If it shoots over 1 1/2" ever I change to a different bullet or powder.

This is given my loaded ammo is around .002 runnout or less. I've noted when the Lee collet is tightened down to much especially on the 223 I've seen problems with runout.

Shod

^^^^^^^^ I wouldn't have floated the barrel either. I'd also be suspect of the bedding. Looks like something is loose. Action may be skating around in the stock..

This bullet has always been my go-to bullet to test accuracy in my 22cal rifles. In most other calibers, I usually start with Sierras or Nosler BTs as they seem to both be easy to get to shoot well. I have a ton of 55gr NBTs so I may try them, but I've heard good and bad about them as a medium game bullet. Also have some 65 SGKs that might work in the 9 twist Hawkeye. The MkII is a 12 twist so might have to go with the 63 Sierras.

How did they shoot before bedding?

Mine says varmint bullet on the box. I have some Barnes that I will try after the Noslers. I got to get one thing to shoot at a time. miles

^^^This, plus suspect bedding, plus heat as the primary cause.

Hint: NBT's or Hornady V-Max is the standard for accuracy testing & load workup..........if these don't shoot well, there's almost always a gun problem.

Armscor brass is surely not the accuracy standard either but I kinda doubt that is giving those kind of groups, especially since it's been fire formed & collet neck sized.

H-4895 almost never don't work with 55's...........

MM

The MkII during the initial workup shot 3/4in with the last 2 touching at 26.1 during the initial workup. That was the best of 8 3-shot groups starting at 24gr and working up in 0.3gr increments. I did come back and try 26.4gr and got a 2.5in group. These were all loaded to the lands. I then started at the lands with 26.1 and worked back in .005in increments, 3 shots each. The next trip, 26.1gr loaded to the lands, same as the 3/4in group from the day before, gave me 2.5in. Frustrating, but I decided to press on. At 0.010, 0.015, and 0.020 off, all groups tightened up to 1.25. Six rounds loaded 0.015 off today gave me the pictured group. Frustrated again.

The Hawkeye was 7/8" at 26.1gr at the lands. Next day was 1.5" at the lands with last 2 touching. 0.005 off the lands shot 5/8". Loaded 6 at that charge and OAL and got the vertical string shown above. The last 3 shots clustered in the center give me some hope, but I'm just not sure whether to keep putting more effort into this combo.

ETA: I think I didn't read your question correctly. The bad workup loads in the Hawkeye were 2-3.5 inches. MkII was about the same.

Only shot the MkII once with factory ammo before bedding. Best I remember it shot about 1-1.5in.

The Hawkeye has been my problem child since I bought it new. Hoped bedding would help but it hasn't changed much.

I've got IMR and H4895, H335, Benchmark, Varget, and IMR4198 on the bench, so surely I can find something that will work.

I'd trim my fingernails and put a pressure pad at the tip on a featherweight barrel...

A load that has worked in several 223s for me is 25.4 grains of Benchmark with a CCI mag primer and the Hornady 55 sp. In my Tikka this load puts 5 shots inside an 1 1/2" at 300 yds.


Shod