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Joined: Apr 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
I owned a couple M1a's and an AR-10... In an M1a I liked my Bush Rifle a lot. Much lighter than my full sized walnut version.... I think they were calling it the "Loaded" model at that time. Both were accurate rifles. The bush rifle had some muzzle blast to it. I put a tritium front sight, and ghost ring rear aperture, and modified a light holder meant for a shotgun, and mounted a Surefire with a pressure switch, and for a while it was my bump in the night gun.
My AR10 was the big DPMS LR308 with the 24" bull barrel. Freaky accurate. Way fun to lob shots at long range and watch trace. BIG heavy beast.
If I were buying another semi 308, AR all the way. Just a much easier platform to deal with and I pretty much need a scope these days.
Always wanted to take that M1a Bush rifle hog hunting in California. It was, at the time, Cali legal.
My buddy B has a couple lighter AR10's set up tactical. Pretty sweet.
Expensive sunsabitches to feed properly though.... .223 wins big time there! Back when 200-round battle packs of NATO milsurp 7.62 were $40 the semi auto .308 made more sense. Now, too rich for my blood, to really "do the voodoo they do" ....
With no bear trouble in 25 years I've gone to AR15's for my grab guns.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Thanks for the input. It definitely gives me something to think about.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
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Expensive sunsabitches to feed properly though.... .223 wins big time there!
Back when 200-round battle packs of NATO milsurp 7.62 were $40 the semi auto .308 made more sense. Now, too rich for my blood, to really "do the voodoo they do" .... Yeah, I was be-moaning the thoughts of cheap ammo days this past weekend. I will always have a soft spot for a wood stocked battle rifle from US lineage... Both rifles are good platforms, but each has it's limitations for use. Weight is a consideration for both, and the uber accurate ones tend to run on the heavy side. Standardization of interchangeable parts is getting better in the AR-10 platform, but still not as "fixed" as with the smaller -15 cousin. Your AR-10 can swap to alternate calibers with two pins, maybe a magazine. M1A parts are limited to a very finite number of sources, and not many companies are investing in new production. "Parts are (not) parts" in either rifle, quality and tolerance in production will win out over time and use of either.
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,668
Campfire Regular
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From what I gather, the only question of "absolute reliability" concerns folks who carry and use their rifles under combat conditions. For hunting or target shooting either is plenty reliable.
I went through a period where I seriously considered a Smith & Wesson MP-10 or a Springfield Armory M1A Squad Scout.
Both are relatively light at 7.7 lbs. for the Smith and 7.8 lbs. ( actually weighed ) for the synthetic stocked M1A Squad Scout.
Both are reported to be comparably accurate, on the order of 1.5 or better MOA for five rounds with ammo they like.
The biggest drawback for the M1A is it's is stocked for iron sights. Mounting a scope on a good tough mount is both expensive and places the scope very high over the rifle, or one can use a scout scope.
The M&P will take anything in a scope, but it sits very high on the rifle, which is bad for a guy that tends to cant his rifle when shooting.... Their triggers suck as well.
To me the M1A handles/feels better. So I gambled and bought one even with my concerns for it requiring a scout scope.
It has worked out very well. The Leupold VX2, 1.5-4X Scout Scope is alot sharper and more useful than I ever thought it would be. Probably due to the 6-6.9 inch eye relief vs. the standard ER of 9-14 inches that most classic scout scopes have.
It shoots regularly under 1.5 MOA with several of my handloads. And the trigger is so good, it has the honor of being the only rifle I've bought in over 25 yrs. that didn't need a trigger job. Very consistant and very crisp.
So, I'm happy with my choice. E
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Campfire Regular
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From what I gather, the only question of "absolute reliability" concerns folks who carry and use their rifles under combat conditions. For hunting or target shooting either is plenty reliable.
I went through a period where I seriously considered a Smith & Wesson MP-10 or a Springfield Armory M1A Squad Scout.
Both are relatively light at 7.7 lbs. for the Smith and 7.8 lbs. ( actually weighed ) for the synthetic stocked M1A Squad Scout.
Both are reported to be comparably accurate, on the order of 1.5 or better MOA for five rounds with ammo they like.
The biggest drawback for the M1A is it's is stocked for iron sights. Mounting a scope on a good tough mount is both expensive and places the scope very high over the rifle, or one can use a scout scope.
The M&P will take anything in a scope, but it sits very high on the rifle, which is bad for a guy that tends to cant his rifle when shooting.... Their triggers suck as well.
To me the M1A handles/feels better. So I gambled and bought one even with my concerns for it requiring a scout scope.
It has worked out very well. The Leupold VX2, 1.5-4X Scout Scope is alot sharper and more useful than I ever thought it would be. Probably due to the 6-6.9 inch eye relief vs. the standard ER of 9-14 inches that most classic scout scopes have.
It shoots regularly under 1.5 MOA with several of my handloads. And the trigger is so good, it has the honor of being the only rifle I've bought in over 25 yrs. that didn't need a trigger job. Very consistant and very crisp.
So, I'm happy with my choice. E
So, you got the squad scout and not the long one? That was the one that interests me. I doubt that I would hunt with it. I like my bolts for that. I think it would just be a fun rifle to shoot some. I have a 550-yard range here at the house to play on.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,166
Campfire Regular
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308 ARs are the future, but they still have growing pains. M1A's are relics of the past. Seriously? Both were designed in the 1950's. The M14 continues to serve. The AR-10 never made the grade.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,201
Campfire Tracker
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I don't have a scale handy, but my synthetic scout/squad feels a lot lighter that the book weight. Of course, a loaded mag add some to but I wouldn't count the weight of ammo against the gun.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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308 ARs are the future, but they still have growing pains. M1A's are relics of the past. Seriously? Both were designed in the 1950's. The M14 continues to serve. The AR-10 never made the grade. What do you mean it never made the grade?
John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Joined: May 2002
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Chu Lia Vietnam 1968-69 I was assigned to operate the base garbage dump, directing where stuff was to be dumped and then covering it over with a dozer. I pretty much sat on the dozer directing traffic and covering garbage all day, secondary duty was to keep civilian scavengers in line and shoot marauding dogs as there was a out break of rabies.
I was assigned a M-16 and it hung off the aircleaner all day until needed and it worked well in the mornings but as dirt sifted into it through the day it became guess work if it would keep firing, sometimes it took a few round(up to seven once) to put down the dogs. I went to the armorer and he gave me a M-14 and ammo can full of rounds. Problem solved both reliability and knock down power on the dog. It was heavy though and I packed a shotgun on patrols.
Last edited by erich; 04/05/16.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
Make mine a Minaska
Heaven has walls and rules, H-ll has open borders
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Joined: Sep 2006
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My experience with M-14's in Viet Nam: Heavy, your field load of ammo was limited. The sights frequently would not stay tight. Few men tried to get a true zeroe and keep it. Overall they were reliable, but had need for frequent checks and minor repairs. Ejector failure and cracked stock I experienced. My limited experience with M-16's found them more accurate and easier to shoot. General cleaning seemed to be the only maintanance usually needed. Ammo amount that could be carried was almost doubled.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Pretty rare for me to see an AR10 that works flawlessly.
Can't remember seeing an AR15 that didn't.
Two very different animals.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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M1A is pretty picky about maintenance. There are a lot of critical contact points that tend to shift. The gas system gets dirty and the volume changes, making the POI drift. I still have 2, but rarely shoot them because each shot is a countdown to re-bedding and cleaning. 5000 rounds and the barrels become suspect.
The AR15 is less needy. Bolt cam, and keeping the gas rings checked is pretty minor. If you have issues it is pretty easy to change out the bolt assembly and go. Barrels, especially the chrome lined flavor last a lot longer. Reloading is 1/2 as expensive.
I shot service rifle for many years, and on a fluke I started using the A2 with 1/7 twist in 1986 when they were adopted. There were very few 5.56 on the line, but that changed really fast. I have a place in my heart for the M14, but the AR15 platform is more shooting, and less rifle drama. I like to shoot, and in some ways I hate dealing with guns. Maintenance time takes away trigger time.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,166
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308 ARs are the future, but they still have growing pains. M1A's are relics of the past. Seriously? Both were designed in the 1950's. The M14 continues to serve. The AR-10 never made the grade. What do you mean it never made the grade? Unlike the M14 (and the FAL and G3) the AR-10 was never adopted by any country in quantity. Bad timing, among other things. There's nothing wrong with the design.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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The AR had come a loooong way since the early years. I would guess there are more AR-10 (and variants) currently in military use than the M14. I like both designs for different reasons. I wouldn't refuse a older M14 if someone wanted to give me one. 
John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire Regular
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The AR had come a loooong way since the early years. I would guess there are more AR-10 (and variants) currently in military use than the M14. I like both designs for different reasons. I wouldn't refuse a older M14 if someone wanted to give me one. Who uses the AR-10 (or variants), besides the U.S. M110?
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Joined: Jan 2010
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The US uses at least two variants, the M110 and the Mk. 11.
Britain and New Zealand use the LMT 308.
John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I own a couple of them, and of the two problems I had with them, one was purely ammo related, and the other had an extractor spring go bad. With the problems fixed they have both been totally reliable. I don't know of anyone who shoots huge volumes of ammo with them.  Maybe they'd come up short if you had to shoot 500 zombies without cleaning, but I don't know anyone who does that One day at the range I saw a guy with an FAL fighting malfunctions. I was tempted to walk over and adjust his gas regulator, but I doubt he would have appreciated it
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Yes, I got the Squad Scout. I didn't want, or need, a longer barreled version. The Squad Scout comes with a scout scope style scope base. All I had to buy for a scope were some rings.
I've put over 500 yds. through the rifle with no changes of zero at all. That includes the iron sights, BTW. You can tighten them up if you won't need to rezero your rifle for different ranges if you wish.
The only problems I've had were one reloaded case that wasn't fully resized enough, and another that had been fully resized too many times resulting in a head separation.
If I just wanted to shoot military surplus type ammo, I'd buy either the Squad Scout or the Socom 16. The biggest difference is in the sights. The Socom has a much larger rear aperature opening and a much wider front blade which shows up at night. E
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Thanks for all of the info, guys.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
I have owned a match M1A owned this in 1981, an FAL made in Brazil imported by Springfield, more recently a Smith MP 10, a Gen 2 DPMS hunter, and a Ruger Sr-762. The FAL had a built in bipod and was heavy but in my opinion was the best of the lot. It was however a heavy SOB and the dust cover not condusive to a scope. That was an accurate gun as well. The second best is a current Ruger SR-762, I have no idea regards the reliability, have only fired it less than 500 rounds but it is accurate and has fired at every pull of the trigger, the M1 all I remember is that it was a longer gun, and somewhat less handy. The Smith MP 10 is a good gun was 2.5MOA or so and the DPMS was an abortion.
If you need a good 308 consider the Knight or the recently released Daniel defense. Of course I am not a big gun guru or internet Ninja and cannot wax poetic regards a wood vs plastic gun, I simply keep em or sell em, depending. I still got the Ruger even with its chit factory trigger it shoots well.
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