Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting The 300 Wby Mag for elk- is there anything better?

What bullet was used on the cow you lost two (?) seasons ago? Would the increased BC of a like weight AB over a NF made a difference in your opinion?

Crickets.....

The bullet was a 160g North Fork launched at 3048fps from my 7mm RM, with a range of 389 yards. Chest-high blood on the brush on both sides of the trail made it clear the North Fork exited. The initial blood trail consisted of several thick ribbons of very dark blood, which we took to be liver blood, 2-3 inches wide and 2 to 2-1/2 or 3 feet long. No elk I'd shot had ever left so much blood on the ground and my son-in-law and I were convinced we would find the cow behind the nearest brush. Instead we followed a steadily diminishing blood trail over one ridge, across a valley and over an even higher ridge. At the end I was tying orange marking flags whenever we found a pin-prick of blood on the trail. We eventually ran out of blood about 50 yards from a fence marking the end of huntable land. The question then was not whether the cow made it to private land but to which private parcel as there were multiple options depending on her route after she crossed the fence. We couldn't legally follow so we headed back to the truck as dark approached and returned the next morning to search further but found no more blood and no cow.

Would a different bullet have made a difference? A bullet that fragmented and caused more blood loss might have made a difference but that is something no one can know with any certainty. The North Fork had enough energy to exit so whether marginally more energy or velocity would have made a difference is, to me, doubtful. Less wind drift might have helped but my ballistic calculator, using a B.C. of .389 for the North Fork and .531 for an AccuBond, shows a difference in drift of only 1.2" at 10mph. Whether that might have made a difference is also doubtful in my mind.

A little less wind drift might have helped him given by his own admission the bullet was blown of course and impacted in the guts. An exit didn't seem to help much either.

I don't advocate using high BC target bullets on game, but I also am not interested in slinging bricks.

I wouldn't call a liver hit, which is what we think it was, a shot to the "guts". Whatever it was, it was not effective enough and that was my fault, not one of the bullet.

North Fork doesn't list nor measure their BC'S but the shape of them is more blunt than a swift aframe. They also have the grooved shank which hurts BC. Given these two facts I would bet their actual BC is even worse than what you listed. Could be wrong though.
1.2" might have put that bullet ahead of the diaphragm and the extra velocity might have done more damage too.

Call it what you want. However the liver is right around the paunch.

But the paunch bleeds green.


[Edited to add]
As to the North Fork B.C., you are correct, NF doesn't provide them. That said, out to at least 500 yards the 160g NF and 160g Grand Slam loads I used for 20+ years (and used again to take my elk at 411 yards last year, but from my buddy's rifle), are interchangeable. The .389 B.C. value I used for the NF is the value provided by Speer for the Grand Slam.

Seriously, would you say that it's advantageous to use bullets that are more impacted by wind and shed velocity faster?

What I'm saying is that, in my personal experience, I don't believe it has made any difference.

What I want first and foremost is a bullet that provides excellent accuracy, expands reliably and rapidly but in a controlled and limited manner with high weight retention for deep penetration - across as wide a velocity range as possible.

The NF bullets provide that in spades. Are they the best choice for 600 yard shots? Not so much.

No where did I see you mention how well they kill..
And many bullets with out the BC of a brick meet your arbitrary criteria.

That's true, and that's the reason why I use tougher bullets such as the A-Frame, and now the TTSX. I have shot moose through the lungs with the 250-grain partition (the Federal HE load), and as I mentioned before it broke to pieces inside the moose, probably because it was driven too fast. But the same bullet loaded around 2660 fps and shot through the lungs of the same moose would have done exactly what you said.

I shot another moose with the old Lubalox-coated 230-grain FS, and the moose dropped like hit by lightning, simply because it broke the near shoulder and cut through the heart arteries as it passed though the lungs. I shot another with a 225-grain TSX from around 125 yards, and it dropped right there. I haven't shot anything with the TTSX, but I am certain that it has the potential of killing just as well as other bullets as long as I do my part. Call me chicken if you like, but in bear country I want tough bullets I can depend on to break bone if needed.

That said, I understand that each one of us for whatever reason has one or two favorite bullets, and arguing about which one is best makes no sense. As for me, I prefer mid-weight bullets that retain more of their weight: 225 to 250-grain A-Frame, 225-grain to 250-grain TTSX.

I also wouldn't mind using a 250-grain Partition, or even a 250-grain to 300-grain Woodleigh, but the 225-grain TSX is the best all around hunting bullet for me.

Bullets, like everything else, have come a long way since the Partition. The above example of the moose as well as others CLEARLY demonstrate there are better bullets out there, and especially at "realistic" ranges (400 or less yards in my opinion), bullets like North Forks, CEBs, A Frames & TTSXs are the way to go, particularly out of faster calibers and where an opportunity for a close in shot will ensure the bullet holds up. Getting ready to shoot a hog this week at my lease and my 3006 is loaded with 180 Partitions, great bullet and I would not hesitate to use it on elk, but they are not my preference and certainly not on the big stuff like Cape Buffalo.

22 pages and Elk still aren't bulletproof! What's better than a 300 Wby? The rifle you have in your hands when the elk shows up!

How do you know the partition blew up?

Apparently you haven’t read many of my posts because I have discussed how the NF have performed many times. Suffice it to say that I am very pleased with their performance or I wouldn’t keep using them.

As to bullet criteria, I would suggest that all bullet preferences are based on ‘arbitrary criteria’ in an arbitrary heirarchy. You clearly place high B.C. much higher on your list than I do, but I am more concerned about on-game performance at the ranges I shoot at than performance well beyond those ranges. The Grand Slam bullets I used for 20+ years had about the same B.C. values (that of a ‘brick’ in your terms) but they provided the performance I wanted and I kept using them. As stated previously I used one and my buddy’s rifle to take a 6x5 bull at 411 yards last year, my second longest elk kill ever. The bull went 4 steps and down and B.C. was not a factor.

If a high B.C. was a primary concern I’d sell my .44 Mag Browning carbine and my Marlins in .30-30, .375 Win and .45-70, as well as my Ruger .44 Mag revolver. If downrange velocity was the major concern my .280 Rem, .308 Win and all my .30-06’s could go, too, leaving me with my 7mm RM and .300WM. What the hell, might as well sell them and get a .28 and .30 Nosler.

One thing a NF will never do is lose its tip and jam a rifle, as happened twice to a hunting partner of mine on an antelope hunt with Barnes TTSX bullets. Those two TTSX bullets cost him his shot and he went home empty-handed. Their higher B.C. value was of no help.

As to other bullets meeting my ‘arbitrary requirements’, there aren’t all that many. I have a box of Federal Nosler Partitions for my 7mm RM that I bought back in the 1980’s. Never could get the accuracy I wanted with them, even with handloads. North Fork and A-Frame bullets cost more but have been superbly accurate in my rifles. (The only A-Frame I use is the 120g in my .257 Roberts.) Trophy Bonded bullets meet my criteria even though they also have B.C. values of a ‘brick’. My hunting buddy has used them to good effect but they are no longer available as components. Too bad, because I think the Trophy Bonded Tip version is one of the best bullets available.

AccuBonds are a better bullet than most and I use them quite a bit (.257 Roberts/110g, .280 Rem/140g, .30-06/150g and .338WM 225g). In addition I plan to work up a 150g load for Daughter #1’s .308 Win. If that load works out she may use it for antelope and elk this fall.

For my purpose-built, heavy barrel 6.5-06AI I chose the 130g Scirocco-II largely because it was a bonded core bullet with a high B.C. value and I wanted something that would work from close range out to 1200 yards. So far I’ve only taken one antelope with that rifle and at a range (under 300 yards) where a NF would have been just fine.

Barnes XLC, TSX, MRX and TTSX bullets have proven to be very accurate in every rifle I’ve tried them in. The older XLC bullets, while very accurate, were inconsistent on game and, as a result, I could never bring myself to use TSX on game, even though I had loads worked up for a couple of different rifles. The MRX design resolved my concerns and they proved to be excellent and consistent on game. I still have some 180g MRX loads left for my .300WM. Ditto the newer TTSX, which I use quite a bit (.257 Roberts/110g, .280 Rem/140g, 7mm RM/140g, .308/130g and 168g, .30-06/168g).

I’m sure there are other bullets out there that would work for me (don’t know what they are, though) but with the options I have now I see no need to go through the expense and time required for load development and testing. There are also a lot of bullets available that others are quite happy with that I have no interest in whatsoever.

One thing I do know – if my 7mm RM goes elk hunting this fall it will be loaded with 160g NF.

I don't use vld style bullets for hunting, so your assumption is wrong. I would rather not use a poorly shaped bullet for hunting because added wind rift and needless energy/velocity loss is never a good thing.
Btw since your keen on shift Aframes. These bullets are essentially a partition that penetrates less, has a lower BC, cost more and kills less abruptly. Seems like a great deal to me!

Jorge, my father's favorite bullet out of the 375 for buffalo was the 300 grain partition. And he shot alot of buffalo. I could give you a figure but you probably would call bs.

As for plastic tips breaking. I have been using plastic tipped bullets since the original BT came out. I had a few broken tips with Nosler AB and the same with TTSX's. The Nosler had a mfg defect and it was my fault on the Barnes. I have never lost a tip on a BT and not from lack of use.

I'm sure guys like the old hunters in Africa shot hundreds if not thousands of buff with POS Kynoch bullets, but time marches on, and the Partition aint even in the same universe as a TSX, Aframe, NF, CEB, etc.