Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Insults to the old Cusotm Gun Makers

JB,
Do you have some idea as to what decade a factory barreled action dropped into a synthetic stock went from a practical home shop answer to bad weather and became so called "Custom Rifles"?
Painted plastic stocks and expensive scopes on factory rifles wasn't "custom" when I was growing up in the '60s and '70s.
On top of that, the first synthetic stocks I saw were jeered at by magazine writers as cheap and gauche.
Now we have people dropping Remchesters into Mcplastic stocks and showing us their "custom" that I can duplicate in a few minutes with no skill. Product of our instant gratification seeking population?

Edit: I'll grant there are advantages to synthetic stocks. That still doesn't come near the wonderful skill and artistry of true custom gunsmiths that create rather than just screw aftermarket parts together.

Oh, would you be suggesting that a length of pvc pipe, a tube of araldite, and a can of filler foam does not constitute a "custom"?

I am sure JB will wade in with his wisdom and experience but as a "magazine writer" in the early 1980's I expoused the virtues of synthetic stock on rifles because they offered real benefits to serious shooters and hunters.
I agree with you that cheap, plastic rifles do not have the viceral appeal of a nice wood stock rifle but just today at a local gun show I was having a talk with a few knowledgable Alaskan gun makers and hunters about the very real virtues of the superb accuracy of the "cheap and gauche" Ruger American rifle.

I am not ready to abandon my wood and steel custom Mauser's, M-70's and Springfields but to pay the devil his due, most of the AR's and plastic POS rifles shoot as well, and usually better.

So much better that one of the top gun builders is even considering building custom stocks for the Ruger American !!

I would prefer my blued and wood in the theoretical sense and often use them. However, I was very content with my old Win 70 375 H&H stainless classic last fall when we had bluebird weather, ice, rain, snow, etc. and needed to improvise an antler tool for raking. That POS M70 cheapo plastic stock sure worked well for beating the brush and getting the hackles up on a couple of bulls all at once when the time came. And I didn't have to worry about scuffing or denting a nice and/or expensive stock.

Somebody asked me one day, "did you build that AR?" and I replied "no, I assembled it". Which is pretty much true; all I did was bolt it together with factory parts, although the best parts I could get, regardless of cost. You can do pretty much the same thing with a bolt action gun - at least until you get to headspacing, fitting, tuning, etc.

I own mostly blued steel & walnut too, but when you have a synthetic stocked rifle, that has extensive machining, fitting, or modification of the parts, to suit the owner, then I have no problem calling it a custom.

It is kind of interesting, even on relatively expensive stainless/synthetic rifles, where every detail is either special or fine tuned, you see very few of them that are embellished or engraved. Unless you count fancy paint jobs

Hey I am with you man, I have some custom Tupperware in the kitchen and it is spic!

I am bored so why not.

There are most definitely custom rifles that utilise synthetic stocks, but you are correct in your assertion that every tom, dick, and harry shoves something into an after-market something or other and labels it as "custom"...apparently everyone has the right to be "special", even if they don't spend the money or have a skill.

Just wander on down a few fora and you will see a myriad of painted/rebarrelled "customs" proudly shewn off by their owners/creators.

Back around 1980 or thereabouts I had a M70 stock hang around the dry air of Wyoming fort about a week before it went mule deer hunting. I had shot it upon arrival and it was nicely zeroed....but not after a week of drying out.

It hit out, high and right. I bought a Brown Precision stock and that was the end of the that.

Built dozens (literally) of similar rifles in various calibers on M70, Mauser, and Rem 700 actions,and hunted them all over North America. I called them all "parts guns", utilitarian but never considered them "custom".

To me, custom was something with a handmade wooden stock by a top quality maker like Biesen, Goens, Brownell,etc and top notch metal work. Still feel the same way.

It's evolved since then....you can have a custom made with synthetic stocks and the metal done by top makers rivals and likely exceeds the old school stuff for pure accuracy,and durability,even if they lack class and panache.

I doubt I have owned a better custom for function, accuracy and durability in a moderate weight package than my 7mm Mashburn Super built by Gene Simillion with Legend Edge stock.

But factory barreled actions bedded in afar market stocks still don't qualify as "custom" in my mind, even if they work better. No matter....killed piles of game with them. so who cares what we call them?


To me, this is a contemporary custom:






This is an old school custom by a top maker:






And this is a "parts gun".....Krieger barrel, Brown stock, M70 action. Lovingly coddled together by various hands until it ended up "right". But not really a custom.

But it killed two great bucks its first year in use so who cares? One of my favorites.

Yep, a handmade wooden stock isn't anything like a layered and finished McMillan, just like putting a new stock in a factory action isn't anything like an engraver scrimshawing all kinda decorations on a NIB Smith 53...


Strike up the ornate 870's....and don't forget how the old masters would customize those 1897's, Model 12's and Brownings with a Cutts or a customized Poly choke...

Deflagrate,

I haven't seen too many factory rifles with a synthetic stock bolted on called "custom," but when it does happen I always scratch my head....

There are some real custom syn-stocked rifles. I'll always remember my first, a .280 Remington built on a Remington 78 action by the late Dave Gentry, partly because it was so light and yet very accurate, and partly because Dave did so much work! He not only fitted one of his Model 70-type safeties, but did other extensive work to the action, including milling down the receiver, changing to bolt-stop to a Model 70 type, and (one of his secrets at the time) sawing most of bolt's body out and replacing it with aluminum, again to save weight. The barrel was a Douglas #1 stainless, but Dave chrome-blacked the entire barreled action, then pillar-bedded it in a Garret Accur-Light stock, one of the early makers who produced very good and light stocks, but isn't around anymore. Oh, and of course the scope was mounted in Dave's very light but strong, wrap-around steel rings. The rifle not only light and accurate, but very lucky, taking one of my two biggest caribou and what's still my biggest mule deer.

But many of today's so-called custom synthetic-stocked rifles are more appropriate to Bob's term, "parts rifle," since they're aftermarket stocks and barrels screwed into a Remington 700 action. They can work great too, and I've owned and even built several myself, but can't call them real customs--partly because "custom" means as the customer wants. Too many of today's rifles are simply a standard model some gunsmith screws together, with no options, and that's not custom.

John I was always surprised that you sold that Gentry 280, because it was a sweet rifle and obviously very lucky for you.

But we all know how that goes and have BTDT...

I totally agree with Bob. I have a few rifles like that with the Mcmillan and Brown precision stocks. I call them utilitarian and somewhat better than factory because of the things Bob pointed out. No warpage like the wood stocks and much better for the poor weather that is often associated with the hunting seasons around here. However, I guess I have one rifle that I've referred to as a "semi-custom". It is a pre 64 model 70 338 win mag built on an H&H receiver that has a stainless steel Gre-tan barrel, Brown precision (Brown pounder) stock, and cerakoted midnight blue. It's not custom, just put together right:



A rifle just thrown in a McMillan stock is just an upgrade as far as I'm concerned. My 375 H&H is one I consider upgraded by just putting it into a more stable stock:


My 270 is the same way. Definitely not considered a "custom":

The true beauty in these rifles is, they are a pretty much just a grab and go proposition. No worries about them changing POI because the stock warped on you overnight... Like I said before, just an "upgraded" factory rifle when they are dropped into a Mcmillan or Brown precision. IF DONE RIGHT: You get better balance, less weight, better fit and feel, which all correlates to quicker handling and better shooting in the field.

Big difference between "Re-barreled/re-stocked" and "Custom" IMO. Similarly, I believe there is a large expanse between "Gunsmith"and "Gunbuilder".

I have a few rifles that have been re-barreled and re-stocked. A M70 SS Classic in a McMillan w/Lilja chambered in 257Wby. I also have a Lawton action left port, right bolt, single shot, in a McMillan Tooley MBR stock w/Brux bbl in 7WSM that I still don't consider "custom".

This is "Custom" IMO. Commissioned by the wife of one of the American judges presiding over part of the Nuremberg trails in the late 1940's to his specifications:





In 7x57 of course.

Perhaps the underlying problem with all of this is the umbrage taken by those who feel deserving of veneration based on how much they spent on a true custom when some interloper who did not spend enough to join the club attempts to weasel his way in.

Well we all like to discuss the rifle we cobbled together and that worked out well...but sometimes there have been a few that did not....even customs.

You tried to spare a few bucks but somewhere things went sideways....too many people messing with it, wrong bedding techniques,half assed smithing etc.

You see theses things coming after awhile and decide to pull all the stops...spend what's required, put it in the hands of one quality smith and pay to make it right. Like my Simillion. Worth everything I paid.

That last "parts" 270 of mine was sort of a problem rifle, built of good stuff by good people but the ball was dropped on bedding. Took an old school smith, a match shooter with M70 experience , to bed correctly and make the light rifle shoot.

Wow! Nice!

Bob,

I sold the Gentry .280 for several reasons:

I'd wanted a .270, but Gentry insisted the .280 was far more accurate. (This was back before laser rangefinders turned the argument into "drifts less in the wind.") I found that while the Gentry .280 was accurate, especially with one specific load, it wasn't as accurate as at least two factory .270's I'd owned.

But I got the .280 before trying any Ultra Light Arms rifles, partly because ULA's were still very new on the market, and Dave had been around quite a while.

After Melvin let me borrow an Ultra Light for a year, I wanted one, since it was lighter, more accurate and balanced better than the Gentry. I got a .270, but my wife decided she wanted it, which made some sense, since I already had the .280.

After trying a couple other ULAs, eventually I got an ULA .30-06, partly because I was traveling a lot more by then, and the .30-06 is more practical for hunting more animals, in distant places than any other cartridge I'd tried. I just had to try the others to remind me of that fact.

I still have the .30-06, 20 years later, and it's taken more big game animals than any of my other rifles during that period--and it's also been very lucky. It's done the job both with handloads and factory ammo, at everything I ever pointed it at, including animals wounded by other hunters, and Eileen used it considerably too, before she started getting recoil headaches.

The .30-06 may be boring, and in fact some people I've run into during my travels made that comment--which is also a fact. But as Col. Whelen once noted, the .30-06 is never a mistake. And even now, with quite a few rounds down the barrel (because I've used it not just for hunting but testing ammo and scopes) the Ultra Light is still more accurate with a wide variety of loads than the Gentry ever was.

However, it also can't be called a custom rifle. I ordered it with a 13-1/2" length of pull, but that's what Melvin delivers unless somebody wants something different. I also ordered a 24-inch #2 barrel, and the stock black, about as basic as it get.

While those were obviously my choices, before Melvin could build my rifle he got a return rifle from a shop in Germany that just happened to be exactly what I'd ordered. He asked if I'd take the "German" rifle, and I said yes, which is why my Ultra Light Arms .30-06 has a proof-mark stamp on the barrel, a tiny red stag. So even after ordering a specific Ultra Light Arms rifle, it still wasn't made for me.

It's not a custom, but it works.

John I see the progression. I know that 30/06 has been a favorite of yours for years and has taken lots of animals.

Of course i consider anything that comes out of me l's shop as "custom", even if it's made to his standard pattern. The quality is custom level, no doubt about that.

Dang! My Remington 721 action with a 700 take off 06 barrel screwed in with the writing pointing into the Brown Precision stock and the 700 bottom metal isn't custom?
Oh the shame of it all.
Well, it does shoot nice groups and has shot a lot of game.
I for one will likely not own a custom rifle, though my first rifle built on a Mauser action with Herters best wood and a Sharon 6mm barrel might have been. i like to look at custom rifles. The fear of Scratching them or denting them makes them a work of art to me. Something to show my friends, but not to take hunting in the mountains.
The second stock I built and spent >100 hours on, broke as it and I tumbled down a slope. My hunting partners thought it was funnier than I did. So I'm an utilitarian hunter I guess.

Looks like a Brno model 21, and whilst they are very nice and very desirable they are by no means "custom".