Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Which burns faster, RL15 or Varget?

I always thought RL15 was a tad slower than Varget.
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<br> Yesterday the Mrs. surprised me with Nosler Manual#5. In several examples Varget is loaded to a couple more grains, such as .308Win with 150-165gr bullets, leading me to think it must be a bit slower.
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<br> I've looked at several powder burn-rate charts online, and some show RL15 faster, some show Varget faster. Maybe they are too close to call...
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<br> What do you all think or know about relative burn rate of these powders?
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<br>MM

MM,
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<br>Nip and tuck,though I've only dabbled a smidge with Varget(don't like it).
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<br>After trying it(Varget),I gave away what I had left and haven't give it much thought until now. I just couldn't make it sing,in the way Re-15 does for me and I tried it in quite a few chamberings.
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<br>I realize that doesn't answer your questions,but I feel better(grin). My take was that burning rates were VERY close...................

I hear you Stick,
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<br> I'm thinking they are probably so close in burn rate that lot to lot variation could make it go either way.
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<br>I haven't used Varget lately. It seemed a decent powder then (moa with factory 30-06 BDL/168grSMK),but I didn't have any real accuracy platforms comparable to my heavy '06 at the time.
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<br>Funny thing how expectations and standards change once real accuracy has been tasted. Can't see any good reason to try it now, with the results RL-15 is producing.
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<br>MM
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It would be my hunch also,that lot to lot deviations would be the greatest difference betwixt the two.
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<br>Many find Varget to be The Holy Grail,I simply was not one...............
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Varget--as well as other Hodgdon "extreme" powders have very little lot-to-lot variation. Add that to their not being temperature sensitive, and that's why I always try a Hodgdon "extreme" powder first. It's nice to know my "tack driver" load will print to the same POI whether it's 100 degrees when I worked it up or 30 degrees when I take the shot. It's also nice to know the same load works when I change lots of powder. So much for the Hodgdon advertisement......
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<br>I am told the various burn rates of powders are variable, depending on the chambering it's fired in. I know one possible reason this seems to be true. It has to do with the way burning powder bounces off the case walls and shoulder back into the main column of powder. I found this theory in either Precision Shooting or Accurate Rifle.
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<br>Blaine
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What Blaine said.
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<br>BTW, Hodgdon Extreme and Vit. N-Series Powders are my favorites but I use a good bit of Reloader,as well.
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<br>I like to try 3 or 4 powders with a specific bullet and see which one it seems to prefer,then get serious with fine tuning and tweaking.
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<br>I'm not a Reloader Powder or bust kind of guy. I like to let the barrel show me what it likes best with a particular bullet and then go from there.

I wouldn't be 100% sold on the temperature idea. I have to admit that hodgdon extreme powders do seem better to temperature swings than alot of others but don't think a load made at 30 degrees will be the same as one at 100 degrees. From what I've seen they are about 50-60% as sensitive as other powders. Probably the better powder out there but not 100% bullet proof.

The two are pretty much considered interchangeable in the heavy bullet .223 loads I've seen people using.
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<br>My rifle preferred RL-15, my buddies prefers Varget..I would try them both in a new barrel!
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<br>Mike

Kraky,
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<br>I have not only read seveal test results showing the insensitivity to temperature, I have seen it time and time again through my chronograph. There just doesn't seem to be a repeatable correlation between temp and velocitiy. I wouldn't say they are 100% unaffected, but the amount they are affected isn't significat reagrding POI or greup size in highly accurate hunting rifles. Then again, the worst powders--probably The RL series--only vary by 100 fps or so, which probably won't show up at 100 or even 200 yds in a hunting rifle.
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<br>Blaine
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<br>Blaine

I have thought that Varget was Hodgdon's 4064 but RL-15 is the same neighborhood I guess. I have been surprised to see how many use RL-15. I have tried it in 30-06, 7-08, and .243 with just so-so success. My lot seems to be very slow as the velocity is way down from what the manuals list. I don't remember using it at max but usually right down a notch or two. And it's always quite a bit slower in velocity than my other powders for the same load according to the manuals with a bit more (100+) ES. Too many people tell how good it is so I must have a different lot. My RL-19 and 22 are weird too with the 19 seeming slower than the 22. I have a lot of RL-22 that Alliant put out a caution about on their web site though. BM

I think H4895 is closer to RL-15 than Varget. My 416 Loves H4895.
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<br>Blaine

The military chose RL15 over Varget for the 308win sniper loads. That may or may not mean anything. MtnHtr

Likely means Re-15 was priced better(grin).
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<br>Though a devout Re-15 Slut,I remain a Realist................

Big Stick, glad to see you could roll yourself over to the computer after your repast. Thought maybe you couldn't move after all the good eats your better half put up.

Big Momma hurt me! It was all I could do,to roll my big ass into bed and sleep off the pain(grin).
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<br>Trying to gather enough gumption,to start eating Turkey sandwiches this morning(only 7:30AM here yet)and to put that bird to rest.
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<br>Here's hopin' everyone else suffers similar "woes"...................

Well I like turkey, and cold turkey sandwiches are also a favourite for me the next day.

I've found, in the past, that RL15 can have quite a bit lot-to-lot variation. For example! Several lots couldn't get me past 2450fps with the 300gr Nosler in my Lazzeroni Hellcat (accuracy was excellent) without getting pretting strong signs of pressure so I went to Varget and got 2550fps without problems...accuracy was still very good but not as good as RL15. I later tried an older lot of RL-15 that a friend loaned to me and I got 2600fps with the same bullet, same primer, same seating depth etc...that's quite a bit of difference. I've gone thru all that lot of RL15 and just bought some newer stuff...hope it works as good.....I'm hoping since the government is buying it their lot-to-lot variations will even out. As a side note, I've also had problems with RL22 in one of my other "hot-rods". I really like the RL series but they can drive me a little batty at times.

Have experimented with various powders at different temps and find that while many of the newer powders will chrono the same at 0 as at 70, they always produce higher velicities at warmer temps.
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<br>The latest lots of R15 are very cold-insenistive, about like the Extremes. This was a modification made a couple years ago for military purposes; R15 was chosen as the U.S. military rifle powder by Lake City. It also includes a compound that reduces copper-fouling in the bore. I believe you'll be seeing more of this too. Ramshot's rifle powders also feature this. They were also developed for military use, in Europe.
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<br>All powders vary somewhat in burning rate in different rounds, especially when loaded in cartridges with very different bore/capacity ratios. And they all vary some between lots. Powder people say this is because they simply can't control some factors, especially water vapor in the atmosphere, when making different lots. So in some calibers and lots Varget will be slower than R15, even though 15 is generally slower.
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How is the "heat sensistivity" of RL-15? The tests performed by Stan Watson show that between zero and 70 degrees, most of the powders show minimal effects. Between 70 and 100 degrees propellant temp is a different story.
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<br>Blaine

The "new generation" R15 developed for the military contract is as good as anything made in the heat. SAAMI specs call for testing up to 140 degrees, and R15 is well within the specs on extra pressure there.
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<br>My tests in cold showed significant variation in some powders, perhaps because mine were done outside, at zero, with the whole rifle and cartridge kept overnight beforehand to replicate field conditions. Most other tests I've seen were done in labs, with the ammo chilled in dry ice or a freezer. It always seemed to me that "real" conditions might have greater affect, and they did.
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<br>The stars in my cold tests were the Extremes, the Ramshot rifle powders, and new R15. All others showed various amounts of velocity loss, some pretty steep. I've performed this experiment a couple times and lost up to 150 fps with some powders, with significant changes in point of impact, say 3-4" at 100 yards. This might not show up in a lab, shooting a warm rifle with cold ammo.