None of the aforementioned recommendations are Colt SAA clones. The Ruger New Vaquero is close in appearance but is not a clone. The Blackhawk looks similar to a Colt New Frontier, which is essentially a SAA with adjustable sights.
Since the Blackhawk came first, it's really the New Frontier that looks like a Blackhawk.
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
The best bang-for-your-buck SAA clone will be an Uberti. The best finished Uberti will be those imported by Cimarron, with those imported by Uberti themselves, a close second.
That's Cimarron's marketing. Cimarron has their own QC staff at the Uberti factory, that is all. Their guns are no different from those from any other importer and come off the same production line. Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Stoeger, all the same.
That's your opinion and nothing more. It doesn't true up with that of most Cowboy shooters who will tell you that in their opinion, Cimarron makes the best.
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Beretta and Uberti are the same company.
No, they are two completely different companies. Beretta just happens to own Uberti now.
Uberti made the Beretta single actions.
The point I was making was that indeed, Uberti makes Beretta cowboy guns. I'm not an expert on the business configuration of the two companies, if there are two.
Ethan is spot on with his statements about Cimarron.
I worked for Cimarron years ago, and remain friends with the owner, Mike Harvey. Mike does indeed pay more for better fit, finish, and wood. Not all models, because they do have entry level guns that are less expensive. But for the upper end guns, Cimarron gives a choice of a nicer product.
BS, that's the marketing and where do you think I learned that all they have is their own QC staff at Uberti? Talk to the folks who own a bunch from all the various importers (myself included) and those who have taken factory tours and they will all tell you there's not a lick of difference between them. Because there isn't. Sorry but the idea that you're getting a better gun or upgraded wood from Cimarron is just false. My SAA replica with the best looking wood is from Taylor's.
"Entry level" and "high end" is a bit vague. They have their basic guns, which come off the line with every other from Taylor's, DGW, EMF and Stoeger. Then there are those that are tuned, which is done by a gunsmith stateside. Then there is the option for the US finish, the antique finish or nickel for any of their guns and that's all farmed out in the US. IMHO, customer service and the availability of those options is what sets Cimarron apart. Not the quality of their basic guns.
For the record, the only Uberti I've ever had to send back was a Cimarron and it was for fit/finish issues.
BS, that's the marketing and where do you think I learned that all they have is their own QC staff at Uberti? Talk to the folks who own a bunch from all the various importers (myself included) and those who have taken factory tours and they will all tell you there's not a lick of difference between them. Because there isn't. Sorry but the idea that you're getting a better gun or upgraded wood from Cimarron is just false. My SAA replica with the best looking wood is from Taylor's.
"Entry level" and "high end" is a bit vague. They have their basic guns, which come off the line with every other from Taylor's, DGW, EMF and Stoeger. Then there are those that are tuned, which is done by a gunsmith stateside. Then there is the option for the US finish, the antique finish or nickel for any of their guns and that's all farmed out in the US. IMHO, customer service and the availability of those options is what sets Cimarron apart. Not the quality of their basic guns.
For the record, the only Uberti I've ever had to send back was a Cimarron and it was for fit/finish issues.
You can argue with someone that doesn't have firsthand knowledge about this very company, but you won't snowjob me on it. I know better.
You might be able to snow someone who doesn't know any better but not me and not a lot of other folks who have more than a passing interest in these guns.
So tell us in what ways Cimarron's are better than those from Taylor's, EMF, Dixie Gun Works, Stoeger, etc.. If WE the consumer can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?
For the record, I've bought two new Cimarrons in the past six months. A Bisley with factory ivory (Persinger):
And an 1866 .44Spl.
Went to far as to have this Cimarron engraved and refinished by Turnbull.
Are they any better than the Uberti's I have from Dixie Gun Works like this Bisley? No.
Or this 1873? No.
Or this one from Taylor's? No. This .32-20 is my holster fitting mule and not only is it one of the slickest replicas I own but it has the nicest factory wood.
Here's a good example. The replacement for the roughest Uberti I ever got, a Cimarron 1860 Richards Type II, is nearly as rough as the gun it replaced. Above it is a 3rd Model Dragoon, one the best fit & finished Uberti's I've ever bought and from Dixie Gun Works.
Is this Schofield from Dixie Gun Works playing second fiddle to a Cimarron? Nope.
Craig, while you may know something about these type of guns, you certainly don't know everything. If you think you do, then you are wrong again.
We can all post cherry picked pictures all day long. But, don't propose to know everything about everything.
I don't know everything about everything either...
You just happened to stumble into something that I DO know about. Firsthand.
Until you have shared a dinner table with the guy that owns Cimarron, and the Uberti family, including Maria before she started Uberti USA, and was involved in the family's dealings and contracts, and know what was discussed, visited the factory in Italy, and checked in the firearms from shipments to make sure the changes and additional requirements for fit and finish, then you don't really know, do you?
If you can show me something that proves your case, then I'm all ears. But, since I know you can't, I'll not worry about it.
I never presumed to know everything or claimed to but I do know this. What happens at the dinner table and with whom is irrelevant and I don't give a damn if you're Mike Harvey hisself. Until you have handled hordes of guns from ALL the various importers, compared them side by side, talked to numerous shooters and CAS competitors plus several successful gunwriters (who have also taken factory tours), taken all these guns apart, tuned them and shot them for 30yrs, you're just a salesman.
If after all that, I can't tell a difference and they can't tell a difference, what does it matter?
Can you quantify what those differences are, or should be?
The only thing one can say about Cimarron's guns is that their lettering is nicer than those from DGW or Stoeger. On par with Taylor's.
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I never said a single thing about prices.
I said that the owner of Cimarron pays more for fit, and finish. That's a fact.
Conflicting statements. One would reasonably assume that if the importer is paying more, the consumer is paying more. Unless Mike is not in the business to make money.
Craig, it seems you are only here to be confrontational and impress people with your know-it-all attitude.
Carry on.
True. That, and to pimp another website and forum (his?), it would seem.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
Craig, it seems you are only here to be confrontational and impress people with your know-it-all attitude.
I'm sorry, do I need another 10,000 bullshit posts to be taken seriously? I'm here to talk about guns. No, I don't know it all or claim to. You won't find me in the rifle section or talking about benchrest or wingshooting or arguing about reloading rifle cartridges. You won't find me in a discussion about what camo pattern is the best. Where you'll find me is in a discussion about revolvers, particularly single actions, like this one. Or discussions about hunting with revolvers. With a little blackpowder action sprinkled on top. That's a long way from "all".
What, are you not used to being challenged? Do you expect everyone to accept your rhetoric without having to prove it?
So, one more time, if you can quantify the difference between a gun from Cimarron and one from all the rest, I'm all ears.
Originally Posted by 4ager
True. That, and to pimp another website and forum (his?), it would seem.
How am I doing that? Because I have a link in my sig? You think I sit here and argue with you dummies to promote my site? Seriously???
I once got in a fist fight in high school with an idiot that was trying to convince the world that those new (at the time) .22 Stingers were WAY more powerful than any .22 Magnum...
Even though I was right, and kicked his ass too..I still had to pay the fiddler.
I have learned to quit getting into confrontations with idiots since then. Especially when I know I'm right, and the other guy is obviously an idiot that wants nothing to do with the facts.
You all know you're arguing with a guy who dresses like a pirate right?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Craig, it seems you are only here to be confrontational and impress people with your know-it-all attitude.
I'm sorry, do I need another 10,000 bullshit posts to be taken seriously? I'm here to talk about guns. No, I don't know it all or claim to. You won't find me in the rifle section or talking about benchrest or wingshooting or arguing about reloading rifle cartridges. You won't find me in a discussion about what camo pattern is the best. Where you'll find me is in a discussion about revolvers, particularly single actions, like this one. Or discussions about hunting with revolvers. With a little blackpowder action sprinkled on top. That's a long way from "all".
What, are you not used to being challenged? Do you expect everyone to accept your rhetoric without having to prove it?
So, one more time, if you can quantify the difference between a gun from Cimarron and one from all the rest, I'm all ears.
Originally Posted by 4ager
True. That, and to pimp another website and forum (his?), it would seem.
How am I doing that? Because I have a link in my sig? You think I sit here and argue with you dummies to promote my site? Seriously???
Well, the link is in your every post, is it not? Why else would you contradict yourself and only tout six guns?
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
You all know you're arguing with a guy who dresses like a pirate right?
W....T.....F.......?
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
You all know you're arguing with a guy who dresses like a pirate right?
W....T.....F.......?
Ask Blue, but I'm sure Craig is the guy with the great big pirates belt and cutlass
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I once got in a fist fight in high school with an idiot that was trying to convince the world that those new (at the time) .22 Stingers were WAY more powerful than any .22 Magnum...
Even though I was right, and kicked his ass too..I still had to pay the fiddler.
I have learned to quit getting into confrontations with idiots since then. Especially when I know I'm right, and the other guy is obviously an idiot that wants nothing to do with the facts.
Ok, so you're comparing me to an idiot who didn't understand the difference between a .22Mag and a .22LR Stinger and you'll post these two responses but you won't actually address the issue at hand? I'll take that to mean that you can't answer the questions posed and were probably nothing but a salesman. I've posted my experience, with what firearms, along with pictures, commentary from gunwriters and fellow shooters who have all had the same experience and all you've provided is another marketing piece.
IME, the only folks who think Cimarron provides a better Uberti than any other importer are those who either don't own any or own so few that they have no frame of reference.
Originally Posted by gitem_12
Ask Blue, but I'm sure Craig is the guy with the great big pirates belt and cutlass
BS, that's the marketing and where do you think I learned that all they have is their own QC staff at Uberti? Talk to the folks who own a bunch from all the various importers (myself included) and those who have taken factory tours and they will all tell you there's not a lick of difference between them. Because there isn't. Sorry but the idea that you're getting a better gun or upgraded wood from Cimarron is just false. My SAA replica with the best looking wood is from Taylor's.
"Entry level" and "high end" is a bit vague. They have their basic guns, which come off the line with every other from Taylor's, DGW, EMF and Stoeger. Then there are those that are tuned, which is done by a gunsmith stateside. Then there is the option for the US finish, the antique finish or nickel for any of their guns and that's all farmed out in the US. IMHO, customer service and the availability of those options is what sets Cimarron apart. Not the quality of their basic guns.
For the record, the only Uberti I've ever had to send back was a Cimarron and it was for fit/finish issues.
You've been a trouble maker here ever since you landed on the Handguns forum. Rockinbar doesn't always agree with me, but he is at least honorable. I would take his word all day long every day over yours.
I know a guy who is a top cowboy action gunsmith and he will tell you Cimarron is the best. Taylor's pale in comparison.
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