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Originally Posted by akmtnrunner
Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized.


Not all..

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Originally Posted by JOG
Originally Posted by Magnumdood
5. Then you could pull a bullet through each bore to determine if the coefficient of friction is identical as you claim. Absent the above, you can tell the world the difference is negligible, but you wouldn't know if you were right or wrong.


I never claimed anything of the sort. Your question was:

Originally Posted by Magnumdood
How much does that off-set the 10% larger surface area for pressure to act on of the rear of the 45 Colt bullet?


My answer was "negligible".


Yes, you said the difference would be negligible.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott

I'm curious where you come up with the greater bearing surface on the 45, looking at bullet designs on the Mountain Molds website I come up with less bearing surface for the.

I simply calculated the circumference of the .45 cal bullet compared to circumference of the 44 mag (.429 cal). Comparing the circumferences shows the .45 cal bullet's circumference is 15% greater than the .429 cal bullet. Given the same length bullets, or say the same length of contact in the bore, the .45 cal bullet will have 15% more bullet exterior contacting the bore than the .429 cal 44 mag.
Originally Posted by 458 Lott

For the same weight bullet the 45 is shorter and assuming one uses the same nose length i.e. forward of the canalure on an ogival wadcutter i.e. lfn shape the 44 has a longer base and longer driving bands than the 45 for a given weight. In the case of a 250 gr with a .35" nose and 75% meplat the 44 had roughly 10% more bearing surface due to the longer base bands for a single lube groove bullet.

What you just posted above shows my ignorance regarding the length of 45 colt bullets vs. the lengths of various 44 magnum bullets. I have learned something and stand corrected.
Originally Posted by 458 Lott

If you want to have a closer comparison it's better to use a 10% heavier bullet and at that point the 45 has 10% more weight, base dia, wound channel and due to lower operating pressure about 100 fps slower all while burning the same amount of powder than the 44.

Once again you have educated me. Thank you.
Originally Posted by 458 Lott

Everyone has their preferences, but the math doesn't lie.

Indeed it does not.

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I was a deputy in Texas for 17 years. The issue of stopping power of various cartridges was always a lively debate.

One theory, not mine, but I happen to agree with, is you can only count on damage being done to your assailant by the tissues the bullet actually hits. Temporary cavitation, hydrostatic shock, etc...could not be counted on to stop an adversary. The only damage one could count on to stop a bad guy was damage done to the tissue the bullet actually hit. Ergo, a bigger diameter bullet (45 ACP) driven at a decent velocity, was more likely to stop an attacker than a smaller bullet (9mm) driven at a faster velocity. I agree with that 100%.

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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
I was a deputy in Texas for 17 years. The issue of stopping power of various cartridges was always a lively debate.

One theory, not mine, but I happen to agree with, is you can only count on damage being done to your assailant by the tissues the bullet actually hits. Temporary cavitation, hydrostatic shock, etc...could not be counted on to stop an adversary. The only damage one could count on to stop a bad guy was damage done to the tissue the bullet actually hit. Ergo, a bigger diameter bullet (45 ACP) driven at a decent velocity, was more likely to stop an attacker than a smaller bullet (9mm) driven at a faster velocity. I agree with that 100%.

Great observation.

The reason the 45ACP was adopted.

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17 page debate lol. Normally goes on much longer and this one probably will. My caliber of choice is the 45 colt. Great game hammer when loaded and has the added benefit of punchin a larger hole. Bigger hole is a good thing. 44 mag will do well if thats what you choose as well.

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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
I was a deputy in Texas for 17 years. The issue of stopping power of various cartridges was always a lively debate.

One theory, not mine, but I happen to agree with, is you can only count on damage being done to your assailant by the tissues the bullet actually hits. Temporary cavitation, hydrostatic shock, etc...could not be counted on to stop an adversary. The only damage one could count on to stop a bad guy was damage done to the tissue the bullet actually hit. Ergo, a bigger diameter bullet (45 ACP) driven at a decent velocity, was more likely to stop an attacker than a smaller bullet (9mm) driven at a faster velocity. I agree with that 100%.


Me too. I load a cast 270grain rcbs saa to about 280 grains, in several styles of hollow points. Fro a human standpoint, it is a freight train.


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Originally Posted by shrapnel
I am happy for you and your gelatin block, bent bullet discoveries. You want to keep on pressing forward with your vast knowledge of ballistics that have little or no value to anything but a gelatin block or a lead pot.

Yeah, so scientific testing with as few variables as possible, using a medium made from animal protein that's designed to replicate muscle tissue, with two guns that are as identical as possible and loads that are as comparable as possible, is less useful than starry-eyed, puerile bullshit about "history and character"??? Good to know I'm sparring with such an intellectual titan.......or something.


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I doubt you have or will contribute to this forum any more than criticism. Arguing with you is like wrestling a girl, winning is easy and pointless...

What an impressive sense of superiority you have! Winning an argument usually involves actually having one. You seem to have skipped the argument portion of this conflict and gone directly to personal insults. The question is, do you actually have anything meaningful to add to this discussion??? Or is "history and character" and "shove it up your ass" about the sum of it?

In fine Campfire style and a language you can easily understand, GFY.

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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
at a faster velocity. I agree with that 100%.


Me too. I load a cast 270grain rcbs saa to about 280 grains, in several styles of hollow points. Fro a human standpoint, it is a freight train. [/quote]

I am working on casting some 320 gr now. A five cavity 320 gr mould empties my lead pot pretty darned fast!


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Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
If I could guarantee equal accuracy between the 2 cartridges, I would roll with a .45.

That said, having owned more than a dozen .45 revolvers, and the majority having throats of various sizes, I always went back to the .44.

It is very hard to find a Smith or Ruger .44 mag that is not a tack driver. The same definitely cannot be said for .45 Colts.

I will continue to own both, but normally reach for a .44, as it does everything I need.


Someone was emailing me some questions, and this thread (once you cut through the arguing) has some good information.


I still tend to roll with the .44 for the reasons stated above.



I have yet to shoot a critter where substituting a heavy .44 load for a heavy .45 load (or vice/versa) would have made the slightest bit of difference.




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Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush


I have yet to shoot a critter where substituting a heavy .44 load for a heavy .45 load (or vice/versa) would have made the slightest bit of difference.




The above is one of if not the best in the whole thread. I like the 45 Colt and my Blackhawk seems to be one of the ones Ruger did right but the difference between the 45 Cold and a 44 Mag is to small to loose ant sleep over.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
That is a bbeauty. It looks so nice I won't make a smart assed remark about the wrong caliber.

i have two three screw blackhawks in the right caliber, 41magnum.
for those that have a little more refined taste than 44 or 45
and to really get it going i was loading for a buckeye special yesterday in 38wcf. A litle bit of lube on the casings was preventing the rounds from entering the cylinder, and while seated to the stated o.a.l., they were just a little sticky with the cylinder inverted. And ruger cylinders are sloppy?
Of interest is reading an article yesterday by a guy making his own cylinders in 38wcf for the buckeye special, and getting 1500fps out of his loads.

Last edited by RoninPhx; 05/30/16.

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My Colt 32-20 is a bigger hammer than either!!! smile smile smile


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Originally Posted by mark shubert
My Colt 32-20 is a bigger hammer than either!!! smile smile smile

you know i do have a double action colt in 32.20, turn of the century gun. Kaywoody would be interested.


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Originally Posted by Whitworth1
Dang. I leave for a day or so and guns are being shoved up backsides. Rough neighborhood!
My first handgun was an H&R 949 .22 bought for me by my Dad at a local hardware store. I killed a lot of possums and such with it when they were worth something for their fur. I was talking with a local gunsmith who was a strong Ruger advocate. The Super Single Six is probably far superior, but I was happy with the H&R. The gunsmith wouldn't work on an H&R. His quote was something like, "I wouldn't have an H&R shoved up my ass,". My friends and I often wondered what make of handgun he would have shoved up his ass. A Ruger, I reckon. I personally am not anxious to have any handgun shoved up my own ass. Others' mileage may vary.

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Ron, bring it to Quemado - I'll bring my Bisley, if we can make it. We'll have Kaywoodie slobberin' !


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I read a news article about a prison inmate who smuggled a K-frame in his ass. We all have our standards.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
I We all have our standards.


And varying capacities, evidently. grin


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by Whitworth1
Dang. I leave for a day or so and guns are being shoved up backsides. Rough neighborhood!
My first handgun was an H&R 949 .22 bought for me by my Dad at a local hardware store. I killed a lot of possums and such with it when they were worth something for their fur. I was talking with a local gunsmith who was a strong Ruger advocate. The Super Single Six is probably far superior, but I was happy with the H&R. The gunsmith wouldn't work on an H&R. His quote was something like, "I wouldn't have an H&R shoved up my ass,". My friends and I often wondered what make of handgun he would have shoved up his ass. A Ruger, I reckon. I personally am not anxious to have any handgun shoved up my own ass. Others' mileage may vary.



I dated a girl for a while who often used the 6 inch barrel of a 686 as a dihldoh

Last edited by gitem_12; 06/01/16.

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I'd take 44 because I already have 45 colt, plus I have a rifle in 44 and no revolver to pair up with it.


Something clever here.

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