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Nobody takes you seriously because you are confrontational and have lost arguments to posters who have been here much longer than you have such as myself and Shrapnel. You have also been told to [bleep] off multiple times by such posters. Once again, I'd like to invite you to kiss my ass.

You see, I have no desire to participate in this sort of exchange. I want to talk about single actions and you dummies want to talk about anything but. Which seems to be the way everyone here reacts when their uninformed opinions are challenged.



No, you're taking his word for it because you're butthurt over me kicking your ass in the past and laughing every time JWP posts that pic of you. So I really couldn't care less what you think of my opinion. I think you're a blowhard who knows little but talks a lot.

Yeah, you take the word of used car salesmen too?

Any gunsmith who says "Taylor's pale in comparison" is either in bed with Cimarron or deluded.....or both. I'm still waiting for someone to actually point out the difference.



If I'm confrontational it's because this is the rudest, most bullshit-laden forum I've ever been on. If this place was moderated, even lightly, a lot of you would be gone. You sure as hell wouldn't have such lofty post counts because 99% of those posts are nonsense.

Lost arguments, seriously??? Shrapnel didn't even engage in an argument with me, just typical Campfire style of throwing insults and ducking away.

You see, engaging in an argument means exactly that, presenting your argument and responding to the other side. Telling someone to GFY does not "win" an argument. This ain't high school. I have presented my argument here, shared my experience. I have yet to see an actual retort, which is typical of this forum.

Your "arguments" consist of name-calling and declarations based on your own assertions of how knowledgeable you are, which nearly all of us disagree on. People call you names and make fun of you because you are a widely disliked [bleep].

Aside from the Cimarron rhetoric, about which you posted NOTHING but unfounded opinion, you posted at least three comments in this thread that were patently false. I refuted them with actual facts. Disliked or not, I must be at least more knowledgeable than you are. Does that sting?

I gave my opinion and I qualified it. You haven't even met me in the middle. Still nothing useful to add about Uberti replicas? Tell me again whose posts are nothing but personal crap? Oh the irony.

As an ex-Cimarron employee, Rockinbbar has added nothing but marketing propaganda. We'd hear the same from Mike Harvey himself, doesn't make it true.

If Cimarron's guns are markedly better than the rest, it 'should' be easy to prove. One can easily discern the differences between Pietta's, Uberti's, Colt's and USFA's guns.

I can't speak for others but I seldom formerly put somebody on Ignore. I simply skip your bloviating bs. I doubt many are still reading. Blow on.

What makes someone truly an idiot is that that person refuses to learn anything. Simply believing you are right, and ignoring what more experienced people tell you, and dismissing them as liars won't gain you anything but idiot status.

Mike wouldn't tell you anything. Nobody can. You have proven that.

Beyond that fact that Cimarron innovated a better fit, finish, and authentic markings, and went past that to engineer innovative new products with Uberti, you miss the fact that the industry changed because of that pickiness and attention to detail that was a partnership between Cimarron and Aldo Uberti.

Uberti makes guns for other brands too, so eventually the features Mike was paying extra for may have been picked up by others importing from Uberti. They pay extra too.

There isn't just "One Finish Grade" on everything. Uberti offers different levels of finish. Those that pay for that get it. Those that don't, don't.

Until Cimarron set the high mark on fit and finish, as well as innovative design details and accuracy to detail of Colt's, then the Italian replicas were crude at best.

Today there are differences in fit and finish in Cimarron's lineup. You pay more you get more.

Do other companies offer that? Some do.

But to deny that Cimarron was the company paired with Aldo Uberti that brought about those changes in the way guns were made, and the level of quality that was accepted is totally ignorant on your part. I have seen the differences in bluing, case colors, proofmarks, and the actual functional parts.

You ARE the dumbass kid that said the stingers were more powerful.

Congratulations on a level of ignorance that you don't see too often.

Ron White was right. You can't fix stupid.

And again, we have a lot of words exchanged and a lot of personal comments but not a single one describing that magical Cimarron difference. Not a single post to refute my comments on a technical level. Just insults and fluff.

I've been threatening to do a Uberti/Colt/USFA breakdown and comparison for years. Surely someone has done the same thing with a Cimarron to prove they're so much better than those from Taylor's or Dixie Gun Works.



I could say the same about you. How is a Cimarron employee "more experienced" with the guns of the other importers?



I am here to learn. I just don't buy propaganda from salesmen. Known too many of them for that to happen.



Never argued that, at all.



Doesn't that kinda support my point that there is no difference between them?



Then it should be easy to quantify.



Never argued this either.



As I already said and YOU of all people should know, there are the basic guns. Then there are the factory tuned guns, the US finish and the nickel finishes, which are all done stateside.



Apparently they all do and have for some time, because they're all the same.



I never denied that. Actually, I have said countless times that Uberti has greatly enhanced their products since I bought my first, 30yrs ago.



Yeah, who do you think I talked to when they got the ejector wrong on the 1860 Richards Type II?



I would expect no less from a Cimarron employee, in a discussion about the enhanced wonderfulness of Cimarron products. I guess all those other folks who've owned dozens of these guns, the writers who've reviewed dozens of these guns and the CAS shooters who put tens of thousands of rounds through these guns a year are also dumbasses? Can I have your name, so we can have you on official record as calling anyone who thinks Cimarron's guns are just like all the rest are dumbasses? The folks that own guns from all the importers might like to know this.

Mr. Copeland, if you think all I have handled is Cimarron firearms, you are gravely mistaken. If you think I'm a Cimarron employee, you are mistaken again. I worked for Mike for awhile.

I also did custom action jobs on rifles, revolvers and shotguns in the peak of the CAS & CMSA sports. Hundreds of them. All makes and models. I also was a national level competitor in both sports.

Although I can't match your level of self proclaimed expertness, I know what I know, and I know what I saw.

And it wasn't on some internet chatboard where egos like yours are quickly discredited for being as full of shat as they think they are smart.

You have proven your point SO well here. Carry on.

Okay, Barry Stewart, I can readily see and quantify the differences between Uberti's, Colt's and USFA's, inside and out but apparently I'm not smart enough to see the differences between Cimarron's, Taylor's, DGW's, EMF's and Stoeger's guns. So since I'm such a blathering fool and you're such a celebrated authority, you should have no problem whatsoever describing the differences you claim exist between the brands.

How many times do I have to ask?

Go argue with yourself.

You have already done away with any chance of learning something from your betters.

So basically, you're the expert (my better!) and everyone should believe what you say without you having to explain any further? Very interesting....

Sorry, you 'might' get away with that if you're Hamilton Bowen, Alex Hamilton or Jim Martin but nobody knows who the hell Barry Stewart is. That said, any of those men or a plethora of other gunsmiths would take that position. I'd expect any gunsmith worth his salt to explain EXACTLY what those differences were and why it mattered.

You are right.

I'm insignificant. I admit it.

So what does that make you, besides a troll?

At least once more, apparently.

Try bigger/bolder font, it may help. Or not.......

By my count, I've asked ten times now. Apparently, while both Ethan Edwards and Barry Stewart claim that Cimarron's are better and that I'm an idiot, neither can tell you why or in what way.

I own 40 single action revolvers, plus a handful of Italian rifles and a bunch of leverguns and can tell you exactly what the differences are between Colt, Uberti, Ruger, USFA, Pietta, Winchester (USA), Winchester (Miroku), Pedersoli, Armi-sport, Marlin, Henry and others. I can tell you that virtually ALL Italian replicas need action work, regardless of importer. I can tell you that virtually ALL Colt SAA's (and Rugers!) need action work. I can tell you that late model domestic USFA's are so well machined, fitted and finished that they do NOT need action work. I can tell you that the Colt SAA's of the last 10yrs are the best they've ever made. I ought to know, I'm the one that does the action work. I can also tell you there's no difference between the guns marketed by Cimarron, Taylor's, EMF, Dixie Gun Works or Stoeger (Uberti house brand). Up to this point, the ONLY folks I've ever heard say that Cimarrons were better, were those who didn't know any better and were just repeating what they'd heard.

I haven't owned any new Colt SAA's since the 70s nor half the others Craig mentioned, but damn near every single action revolver I've had through my hands since then has needed some kind of action work to make it fit to use. And in that regard the Rugers have no better than the Italian imports. They are built stronger if you anticipate the need to shoot heavy loads.

Regardless my next one will be a four and three-quarter inch Cattleman in 45 Colt. What little about it that does need improving I can easily handle myself.

I would be interested in hearing what makes one better than the other, especially since they are all made by The same manufacturer.

Just got one in SS, thanks for the suggestion!

Which one did you get? I got confused with all the background noise. I'm interested in getting a SA also. Been thinking a BH, but these others have me somewhat interested.

Lipsey's Blackhawk 5241, thinking I'll really like it!