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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,361 Likes: 1 |
About their price on the stock alone.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,312 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,312 Likes: 4 |
I know the Biesen's are highly regarded, and obviously do top-drawer work in all regards, but I've honestly never liked the geometry/lines of their stocks.
When Jim Cloward came out with his Pacific Research stock, he just put a Biesen on a pantomime and created the molds exactly from a Biesen original. I had two, and could never warm to them.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,829 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,829 Likes: 16 |
I know the Biesen's are highly regarded, and obviously do top-drawer work in all regards, but I've honestly never liked the geometry/lines of their stocks.
When Jim Cloward came out with his Pacific Research stock, he just put a Biesen on a pantomime and created the molds exactly from a Biesen original. I had two, and could never warm to them. I am with you Brad. Same for the checkering.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807 |
Here it is. ![[Linked Image]](http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_221/gi_100708138/100708138_221_A11256CCE6E3F145.jpg) Weight: 8lbs, 5oz including mounts. With Redding 3-die reloading set. 99%+blue. Price: $3875. It's too heavy and too much money for an odd ball chamber. The stock color is not what I want.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,515 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,515 Likes: 1 |
There are two types of Biesen rifles: those built by Al & those built by his son Roger. The second type have both names on the barrel.
I prefer the older guns done entirely by Al.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,829 Likes: 16
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,829 Likes: 16 |
I have found it interesting that given the fame of the name used rifles tend to sell relatively cheap?
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,253 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,253 Likes: 14 |
All I can say is that for custom rifles, (like custom homes and custom cars), "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I started watching the Hallowell web site a few months ago. There are a number of custom rifles on the Hallowell site that I would be hard pressed to warm up to, even at an off the shelf price. Wonky geometries. Garish finish or appointments. "Interesting" wood patterns/colors.
Once you get to a $4K to $8K price point, if the rifle is not "exactly" what the buyer is looking for, I expect they either sit tight, or, spend the additional dollars to commission exactly what they are looking for.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,890 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,890 Likes: 6 |
Custom rifles are created to satisfy the tastes of the original owner, the rifle may or may not appeal to others and selling price will reflect this fact. Sellers are free to ask whatever they like, the price realized at the time of sale is usually somewhat less.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,624 Likes: 52
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,624 Likes: 52 |
I just sold a Biesen. All I could get was 3000. It was a 7mm Weatherby. It was a 99% rifle. Took me a while to get that. There has been a few on Gunbroker. They are not selling.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,129 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,129 Likes: 1 |
Hanco,
Yours would have sold higher if it had a 24" barrel.
That was a lovely rifle.
“Factio democratica delenda est"
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Hanco,
Yours would have sold higher if it had a 24" barrel.
That was a lovely rifle. Hanco's 7mm Weatherby was sort of a rare bird in the evolution of 7 mag hunting rifles,and likely pre dated the 7 Rem Mag. Back then one of the most famous hunting rifles around was Warren Page's Old Betsy chambered for the 7mm Mashburn Super, which had a 22"(not a 24") barrel. Of course the Weatherby 7mm was also around, but had the drawback of a 12 twist, too slow to stabilize the long 160-175 gr hunting bullets. The blue print for Old Betsy was as a "mountain rifle",short, with a 22" barrel and weighing 8 pounds or under scoped. The 7mm Mashburn was designed to give a 175 gr bullet over 3000 fps from a 22" ( not 24") barrel. Then, as now, custom rifle people obsessed over blueprints. Likely also why you see so many JOC custom M70 270's kicking around. But not everybody wanted a wildcat, so sharp rifle builders like Biesen would build a 7mm Weatherby but with a faster 10 twist.....and a 22" barrel to mimic (copy) Old Betsy. I think Hanco's 7mm Weatherby was one of those old customs. I have seen others. We think of 24" barrels as standard but among some hunters and custom builders this was not always true.
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/05/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,624 Likes: 52
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,624 Likes: 52 |
Yes, I think you are right, there was an exact copy of mine on Gunbroker for months. It never sold at 2850.00. Mine found a loving home.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Hanco I knew what it "was" right away....   Great old custom.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44 |
Hanco I knew what it "was" right away.... Great old custom. I like the idea of a fast handling 22" barreled custom mountain rifle like Hanco had. 7mm wby would also be cool. Hey Bob, what is the length of your Len Brownell 7mm rem mag barrel? Just out of curiousity...I will buy a Biesen rifle one of these days.. It's on my bucket list..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
bsa: The Brownell rifle has a 24" barrel. Ditto my 7mm Mashburn Super. Page killed something like 475 BG animals with Old Betsy on several continents. Obviously the formula worked in more places than just the mountains.  If you have a light 7mm rifle delivering a 175 gr bullet over 3000 fps, you likely don't need anything else.
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/05/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44 |
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,370 Likes: 44 |
Hanco,
Yours would have sold higher if it had a 24" barrel.
That was a lovely rifle. Hanco's 7mm Weatherby was sort of a rare bird in the evolution of 7 mag hunting rifles,and likely pre dated the 7 Rem Mag. Back then one of the most famous hunting rifles around was Warren Page's Old Betsy chambered for the 7mm Mashburn Super, which had a 22"(not a 24") barrel. Of course the Weatherby 7mm was also around, but had the drawback of a 12 twist, too slow to stabilize the long 160-175 gr hunting bullets. The blue print for Old Betsy was as a "mountain rifle",short, with a 22" barrel and weighing 8 pounds or under scoped. The 7mm Mashburn was designed to give a 175 gr bullet over 3000 fps from a 22" ( not 24") barrel. Then, as now, custom rifle people obsessed over blueprints. Likely also why you see so many JOC custom M70 270's kicking around. But not everybody wanted a wildcat, so sharp rifle builders like Biesen would build a 7mm Weatherby but with a faster 10 twist.....and a 22" barrel to mimic (copy) Old Betsy. I think Hanco's 7mm Weatherby was one of those old customs. I have seen others. We think of 24" barrels as standard but among some hunters and custom builders this was not always true. Speaking of "old Betsy", the new/third owner spruced her up and brought some life back to the old girl. Pretty cool old rifle...: ![[Linked Image]](http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/warren%20pages%20old%20betsy_zpsffp3ug1f.jpg)
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,129 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,129 Likes: 1 |
Never said a 22" barrel wasn't lighter and handier.
My point is simply that most hunters who hunt a 7 Mag prefer a 24" bbl. To rebarrel would have required unscrewing the tube which proves it to be a Biesen. The lack of a 24" likely affected the selling price.
If that rifle had been an '06/270/280 with a 22" bbl it would have brought 4k easy.
I believe it was O'Connor himself who said a 7 Mag with a short barrel with little more than a 270 with more fuss.
Again, lovely rifle.
“Factio democratica delenda est"
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073 |
I handled hanco's rifle. It was really nice. The stock and checkering was perfect. Didn't not notice the short barrel.
On another note I passed on a 264 browning because of the 22 inch barrel. Hasbeen
hasbeen
(Better a has been than a never was!)
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