Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 30/30 Winchester Small Game Loading ?

Zero experience loading light loads for my peep sighted Model 64 30-30 so it's time to ask the 24HCF for help.

Hoping to do 1 inch or under @ 50 with very low recoil.
First choice is the Missouri Cast Bullets 135 grainer. Jacketed is fine as well but not written in stone.

Plenty of Bullseye, Unique, 2400, Red Dot, Trailboss and SR4759 on hand.

Thanks, guys.

Edit: Thinking Lyman M die for this.

yes or no ?

Speer 100gr plinker with 5gr Unique was a favorite load. A little TP stuffed down helps keep the powder near the primer.

Envy you having the SR4759.

WOW !!! I remember them from 30-35+ years ago. Did a search and they're still on the market. Thanks.

The "M" die is a must to prevent shaving of cast bullets. I am particularly fond of Lyman 311241 with 6 grains of Unique for a small game/plinking load.

Hammond Game Getter.

Trail Boss requires no fillers or wadding. I forget the guy's name, but an article I read quoted a Hodgdon official as saying that TB was superior for every purpose that was previously covered by 4759, one reason it's now discontinued.

Terry Wieland's article in this month's Handolader describes his tests in four cartridges, comparing TB to A5744. TB was the best in two of them, 5744 in the other two. Both powders have simple formulas for calculating safe charges, but unlike 5744, TB cannot be double-charged, due to its bulk.

I've mostly used it in light .38 loads, but did try it in a .243, where it worked perfectly. I'm currently sitting on a batch of .44 mag loads for my Low Wall, which is waiting its turn at the range.

Unique, and most other powders in its range, are all but unavailable in these parts, so if TB worked for me, I'd save any "pistol" powders I had for my handgun loads.

My personal favorite plinking .30-30 load, too.

Truth be told, a heavy chamfer in the case mouth can substitute for an M die. I did that for many years before I broke down and bought neck expanding dies. What's more important is having the necks sized properly to hold the cast bullet- .001-.002" under bullet diameter is cool. The Redding neck expanding die I now use for .30 bullets can be had with a bunch of diameters to accommodate the full range of possible .30 cast bullet diameters, and it will flare the case mouth too at the same time. Lyman M dies are ok, but there are better solutions now over that old design.

5-6 grains Unique for me is better than Trail Boss, which takes about twice the weight to equal Unique performance. Way better bang for the buck with Unique. As for bulking up inside the case and obviating double charges? Bah. I use a flashlight and look down in every case setting in the block before seating bullets anyway, to make sure of all charges being present and looking out for double charges. Everybody I know who shoots reduced loads follows that protocol strictly- don't you all? Nigh onto 50 years of shooting reduced charges- god only knows how many tens of thousands- and never once a mishap.

Also, there isn't any need for fillers in the case when using 5-6gr. Unique in the .30-30. Don't waste your time.

As for substituting TB for 4759. No thanks. I never got the sterling accuracy with cast bullets with TB as I do with 4759- from .22 to .30 cast bullets. Believe me, I tried, when I heard 4759 was being discontinued. I figured afterward my time was better spent scrounging every last grain of 4759 I could find. I figure I have enough now to last me my remaining shooting years. I felt like crying when they dropped that powder.

Lyman has loads listed for Reddot, and I've had success with it in the 25-20, .223, 257 Roberts, with reduced loads. I'm sure there is data for the 30-30.

Reddot is not sensitive to the position of the powder in the case, and it does not take up much room at all. 3-4 grains in the 25-20, 7 grains in the .223, and 10-11 grains in the .257, the report with all of them are between .22lr and .22mag levels at the top end, which was just what I was looking for.

This is going by memory, so look into the load data before loading. W231 was also on I tried with the 25-20.

Got enuff gadgets and gizmos. Just want a safe mouse fart load that will feed in my 64.

Just sold my remaining supply of A5744 Pappy.Hmmmmmm,... maybe I should have saved a pound or two.

Deja vu, all over again?

Unique, 5 to 10 grains with a 110 grain RN.

10 grain load is good enough for deer, especially off the back porch.

SR 4759, 15 to 20 grains, 110 grain RN/SP.

drop to 10 grains for squirrel, and 20 grains to drop a deer.

tag




Mike

I use one load for all critters. 150gr Loverin G/C, cast hard. Mold # 311466 20gr H4198 Kills all species dead. Burns clean. Have killed deer, pigs, squirrels and snakes. I got complete penetration on a fox squirrel just the other day. And I posted a pic of a small rattler on the Savage forum about a week ago. It might be a little heavy for squirrels, but I love the way they spin around and around as they are coming down to the ground !!!

I will say that the 311466 Loverin bullet is one of the great ones. It is uniformly accurate in everything I tried it in, at various velocity levels. The only downside is, for me, having needed to cast them out of a hard alloy and/or run the lead pot at an insanely high temperature- all of which to get all those driving bands to fill out nicely.

I used to cast everything out of hard-as-nails alloys, thinking that it was necessary for best accuracy and least leading. Then I wised up and now run just about everything at much softer levels- down around 10-12bhn for hunting and general use, and even softer for low vel plinking loads. If the bullet is sized for a precise fit in the throat (throat diameter minus .0005 and not much more, regardless of what the groove diameter is), nose shape corresponding to leade taper and/or firmly riding on the tops of the lands, and driven within the limitations of the alloy, then superb accuracy with zero leading will result with soft alloys. I routinely drive my .30 hunting bullets at around 2000fps and they are, as stated, at 10-12bhn hardness. Going over that velocity usually requires a harder bullet, and fit protocols become even more critical. If you feel 2000 fps isn't enough oomph for you, simply switch to a heavier bullet. I've been killing stuff for years with 190-220 grain .30 cast bullets at that velocity. (Remember, the old standard load for the .30-40 Krag was a 220 grain bullet at 2000fps and there aren't many experienced guys who will say that cartridge combination isn't deadly.)

Another huge advantage to using soft alloys is much better expansion. I had sketchy results with hard cast bullets on deer-sized game, but that improved dramatically when I switched to soft alloys. (Given, of course, a bullet with a nose configuration that lends itself to mushrooming- flat noses are better than round noses, round noses are better than spire points, and hollowpoints trump them all.)

Lastly, soft alloys tend to be much cheaper to put together than hard alloys.

That is almost what I used to kill my first cast bullet deer except charge was 17.5 grains and out of my .300 Savage. The Lee collet neck sizing die is great for cast bullet shooters. The collet can be modified so the neck is sized except the first .060" or so and the bullet will start right in without deforming. I've done this with .30-30, .30'06, 7x57, and 7.62x39.

11.5 grains 2400 110 Speer Plinker

284LUVR;
Good afternoon to you sir, hopefully the weekend treated you well and you're keeping cool enough in the hot start to June.

While I've yet to play with a plinking load in the .30-30 - I did shoot a fair few 170gr gas check cast bullets loaded to 1500 or so, but that's not what you're after.

Anyway in the .308 our "grouse load" - which by the way also works wonderfully for putting down a deer and doesn't blow the dragging handles clean off - is 5gr 231 and either a 100gr Hornady Half Jacket or Speer Plinker.

In the .30-06 I believe it was 6gr or 7gr of 231 and in the .308 Norma Mag I went to 10gr.

My method was to start where the bullet would reliably exit the muzzle and then work up until I was hitting point of impact at 25yds or close enough to shoot a grouse.

Those loads also worked back in the day when I was training the horses for gun fire. I started with a .22 and went to the Plinker/Half Jacket loads and finally to a few full power/noise loads.

I can't see why Unique wouldn't work just as well as 231 if that's what you've got either.

Good luck whichever way you decide and all the best to you this summer.

Dwayne

I use enough TB to get 1000fps under a 173 from Lyman 311241. It is amazingly accurate out of my and my wife's 50's era Marlin Sporting Carbines, her a Ballard barrel and mine a first year Microgroove. A buddy of mine uses the same load for his kids in a TC carbine with a red dot and gets tiny groups and happy little kids.
I don't recall the exact load but I do know it was the standard fill to the bullet base and reduce by 30% that is recommended for TB.

Great thread! Lot's of useful info. Thanks gents!