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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
You remain an idiot, and it shows.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7 |
I am so very sorry. I completely forgot what a total idiot you are...
Ryan and the NRA are backing the House version of the Cornyn Senate bill.
US Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) “My amendment is called the Shield Act, and it would stop terrorists from buying guns while ensuring law-abiding citizens placed on a watch list by mistake don't have their rights taken away because of some secret list created by the Obama administration or by this government.”
Background
Under the SHIELD Act, if an individual who (1) is a known or suspected terrorist, or (2) has been the appropriate subject of a terrorism investigation within the last five years, attempts to purchase a weapon.
The Attorney General or designee has the authority to delay the transfer of a weapon for up to three (3) business days while relevant law enforcement agencies conduct an investigation.
Federal, state, and local law enforcement officials are notified immediately so they can monitor the situation.
A U.S. Attorney could permanently block the transfer upon a showing of probable cause before a judge that the individual is involved in terrorism.
Further, the Attorney General or designee then has the authority to immediately take the prospective purchaser into custody if a judge determines there is probable cause that the individual is involved.
You support that? Really?
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Hell yes, it protects citizens far better than what we have now. Lets see your better plan...
“We all agree that terrorists should not be able to purchase a weapon; that is not up for debate,” Cornyn said before the vote. “The question before us is whether we're going to do so in a way that's constitutional.”
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,162 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,162 Likes: 2 |
The government would not have probable cause to put the NRA members on the list.
The mistake you're making is assuming the 'government' you're referring to is not corrupt. Wanna rethink that a bit? Especially in light of this administration and what might come after??? That is what Ryan says he wants to do next week; make sure that any list includes those protections for citizens. "Says"... Uh huh.. When it comes to politicians, believe NOTHING they say... NOTHING.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7 |
I generally try to find agreement with some part of another's statements. I will try here as well, but leave out your profanity in that it serves no cause... Lets see your better plan...
In reality, my better plan would be to repeal many, many HORRIBLE feel good laws that already get thousands of Citizens killed every year. "Victim Mandated Areas" or "Gun Free Zones" are insane. If I REQUIRED you to remove your safety glasses and ear protection whenever you entered my shop... the precedent is HUGH for your suing me back to the Stone Age. If my requirement resulted in your death... I would go to prison. ...it protects citizens far better than what we have now. Laws protect citizens??? What??? Are they printed on kevlar or something? We all agree that terrorists should not be able to purchase a weapon; that is not up for debate, Actually No... they should be shot, hung from a tree and burned... then arrested... and then deported. I feel a moral imperative to help as many as possible meet Jesus as soon as possible... To recap... what are they doing here in the first place? Terrorism is not a religion protected by the Constitution.
Last edited by CashisKing; 07/07/16.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,786 Likes: 7 |
My apologies... I hit Submit before I finished... Cornyn said before the vote. “The question before us is whether we're going to do so in a way that's constitutional.” What? How in the world could it EVER be Constitutional? The Feds already have a list of folks they watch every day... been that way for 240 years. To sanctify that list with legislation (without making the names PUBLIC!!!) for O'boner, would be like greasing a pig... and trying to enforce/catch it later... as well as give him/Hitlary another clear step that the Constitution is "no longer relevant". Final thought... did you go the Jim Jones University?
Last edited by CashisKing; 07/07/16.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,385
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,385 |
Hell yes, it protects citizens far better than what we have now. Lets see your better plan...
“We all agree that terrorists should not be able to purchase a weapon; that is not up for debate,” Cornyn said before the vote. “The question before us is whether we're going to do so in a way that's constitutional.” Seems as what you don't understand is that silly outdated constitution protecting you now.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,078 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,078 Likes: 5 |
Whoever said that probable cause sufficient to prevent a citizen from purchasing a firearm is the same as probable cause for an arrest and a trial had it right.
IMHO, the standard for a non-citizen should be less rigorous, i.e., arrest and put 'em on trial if you have probable cause, but barring that deport them if they fit the profile. Profile consisting of country of origin, muslim, and past associations.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,526 Likes: 6 |
Problem with the probable cause requirement is that it doesn't exist anymore. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...ent-warrants-rejected-only-03-time.shtmlTo obtain these 22,741 warrants, 22,748 applications were submitted. Only 7 applications have been rejected since 2003, giving law enforcement a batting average of .99969.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Up, because BOWS wants to claim to post "facts".
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 718
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 718 |
Suspected terrorists can't buy guns? Really? Well, what's a terrorist and who does the suspecting?
Let's not forget that Clinton used the IRS to target conservatives.
Who was the whack job that wanted to deny the Second Amendment to veterans.
Under Ryan's law, Nancy Pelosi could label conservatives terrorists and deny the Second Amendment to them.
Paul Ryan is an effing neocon sellout. Donate to Paul Nehlen. Paul Ryan needs to find a real job
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Hey, where's the Constitutional scholar, BOWSINGER, to explain to us again what Probable Cause and Due Process are, their history, and the legal ramifications of each?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Where is the lying congenital idiot, BOWSINGER?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Here's a hint, you stupid SOB, in that supposed 72 hour "window", is the American who has just had his/her 2A rights notified of the hearing? Are they permitted to retain competent counsel? Are they allowed to review the charges? Are they permitted to mount a defense?
If the answers are "no", you congenital f'kin' idiot, then it is NOT DUE PROCESS.
Add to that, even if all that occurs on WHOSE dime are they billing this; their own to prove their own innocence? If so, THAT is NOT DUE PROCESS.
I realize that you're scared and stupid, but try to follow along, or admit that you're both and simply in over your head. The answers are "yes" Within 72 hours? You're delusional. PROVE that the American whose rights are stripped away by secret list is: 1) notified; 2) permitted to retain competent counsel; 3) allowed to review the charges; and, 4) mount an adequate defense. Within 72 hours, this is not possible. Not only does that defy logic and show that yet again you haven't a clue about Due Process, but even if true (which it isn't and you're guessing) it certainly goes against the premise of an adequate defense (which is required for Due Process). You want delusional? Look in a mirror. Ryan is trying to put the burden of proof back on the government to prove that someone on a terror watch list should not have a gun.
Only a compete idiot would claim that any police investigation has to notify any subject at the beginning of their investigation.Like in the first 72 hours?????
You don't know the difference.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Hey, where's the Constitutional scholar, BOWSINGER, to explain to us again what Probable Cause and Due Process are, their history, and the legal ramifications of each? Ryan and the NRA are backing the House version of the Cornyn Senate bill. This bill (the SHIELD ACT) would clarify and strengthen citizens rights to receive full notice and a judicial hearing and a determination from a judge before any government or federal agency can try to include them in NCIS. It protects Due Process and the Second Amendment. The Attorney General or designee would have three days to get a court order and show probable cause before a judge to stop a gun sale to anyone involved in terrorism. If the judge determines there is probable cause that the individual can be taken into custody. After that, everyone gets their day in court with their lawyers and all the reviews and appeals. It was shot down by the Democrats in the Senate and limping along in the House. Without the three day deadline is how that is how the system works for any criminal investigation and this would bring the NCIS in line. When you are charged is when you are told to get a lawyer and what you are charged with.
Hard to believe that needs to be explained...
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Still waiting for 4ager...
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Oh, look.... The idiot returns after weeks of avoidance!
The bill that you supported earlier, the one that originated this thread, removes the rights of citizens BEFORE trial. They have to prove themselves innocent. That goes against American concepts of Freedom. That you don't get that is rather incredible. That the defendant has to - out of their own pocket - hire an attorney to prove their innocence within 72 hours at a venue of the .gov choosing is it Due Process. It is the inverse of Due Process.
The jury is still WAY out on this most recent attempt in Congress to undermine the 2A.
Last edited by 4ager; 07/29/16.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,792
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,792 |
Ironically, a true terrorist can now determine if he's on the radar of the Feds. He simply has to go try to purchase a weapon every few months and see if he's notified that he is on the the list. Brilliant.
Conrad101st
1/503 Inf., 2nd ID (90-91)
3/327 Inf., 101st ABN (91-92)
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
The bill is DOA, regardless. It has already failed the Senate and isn't getting overwhelming support in the House.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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