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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12 |
I'm gonna shoot more deer and pigs with the 358 Winchester and maybe my 358 Norma this year, I'll put all shots into the shoulders to see if the bang flop or stagger flop deal is still a fig newton of my imagination, I don't believe the visual surveys will be a tropical delusion either. Gunner, mount a go pro on the end of your barrel and let us see how it works out for you. Maybe we can judge the bang flops etc...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12 |
gunner, if you like the 35, you'd love the 9.3x62mm
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 212
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 212 |
Have fun.....j3
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
I have been watching this thread since it's inception, waiting to see if anyone would actually give what I consider to be THE best answer. A couple have touched upon it, but nobody has really put it into concise terms.
The answer is (drumroll please):
Shoot the deer where the scapula and humerus meet (Or just slightly behind it). Break that joint and it's good night Irene every time. It will produce a bang flop (with quick death, no running, struggling, or getting up) more reliably than any other shot placement, including head, neck, heart or high shoulder.....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Nope, I've shot that joint a couple of times on accident, and they run.
I've seen both joints doubled and seen em wheelbarrow themselves into the brush before expiring.
Since I've seen that, and I've never seen a head shot deer move, I think I don't agree with your statement at all.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
That's okay. But you are wrong
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Right here at the crosshair, or at said joint right next to crosshair will bang flop a deer and keep it there, more reliably than any other shot. I have done it more times than I can remember.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,651 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,651 Likes: 1 |
The answer is (drumroll please):
Shoot the deer where the scapula and humerus meet (Or just slightly behind it). Break that joint and it's good night Irene every time. It will produce a bang flop (with quick death, no running, struggling, or getting up) more reliably than any other shot placement, including head, neck, heart or high shoulder.....
BTDT - slugs, ML and centerfire bullets. No guarantee of a flop - and, if you get one, don't expect the deer to be in that exact spot when you arrive.
WWP53D
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
That is the boiler room of the central nervous system. It imparts more shock to CNS than any other shot. It drops every deer, every time IME.
Obviously a brain shot will produce a fast kill also. But it is not as high percentage of a shot.
The high shoulder shot you spoke of earlier kind of does same thing. Only to a lesser effect and deer will still flop, but will not die as fast. And may flop around and try to get up for a while before it dies......
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Okay so I just learned a couple of new terms today when I was trying to find the above deer vitals pic that illustrated my point. The area I am referring to is apparently called the "autonomic plexus" or "hilar zone": The above was taken from Terminal Ballistics Research. There are other places where I found the same types of statements, but TBR pretty much summed up exactly what I was trying to convey. My experience with said shot placement, as stated, has always been the same. Time and time again. DRT deer. For those who stated they experienced runners, or no guarantee of a flop, well, that just doesn't even seem possible to me. JME. From a different article:
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
FWIW, I used to be a big fan of this shot. But I can tell you with no uncertainty, that the deer will not dies as quickly as with the shot I described. The only other shot that will kill as fast is a brain shot. The last sentence of the last paragraph above pretty much describes the high shoulder shot.....
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
I'm gonna shoot more deer and pigs with the 358 Winchester and maybe my 358 Norma this year, I'll put all shots into the shoulders to see if the bang flop or stagger flop deal is still a fig newton of my imagination, I don't believe the visual surveys will be a tropical delusion either. Gunner, mount a go pro on the end of your barrel and let us see how it works out for you. Maybe we can judge the bang flops etc... That would be a fun idea BSA, damn sure wouldn't work with my Sharps rifles, that black powder BOOM cloud would kill the movies. Oh yes, I love my 9.3-62mm too, 320 gr Woodleighs at 2400 get the nod there.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I have been watching this thread since it's inception, waiting to see if anyone would actually give what I consider to be THE best answer. A couple have touched upon it, but nobody has really put it into concise terms.
The answer is (drumroll please):
Shoot the deer where the scapula and humerus meet (Or just slightly behind it). Break that joint and it's good night Irene every time. It will produce a bang flop (with quick death, no running, struggling, or getting up) more reliably than any other shot placement, including head, neck, heart or high shoulder..... Sorry. Not true IME. It's an excellent shot that gives positive results and quick death IME . But I have smashed that joint to atoms,quartering on where the bullet was constructed well enough to damage the chest vitals as well and penetrate clear back behind the off side ribs, on not only deer sized game but larger animals as well and they still made SOME tracks. I am distrustful of those "every time" shots.Nor in absolutes when it comes to this stuff. When an animal collapses instantly to the shot my first reaction is to reload, stay with him, and be ready to shoot again immediately.Seen plenty of broken "rules". Don't buy into the Berger fragmenting bullet business either for normal distances. The shot placement advice was good but thats where it ends for me.I've seen bullets smashed to atoms on deer shoulders and break legs and all you got was three legged wounded buck or elk.
Last edited by BobinNH; 08/07/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
They make about as many tracks as a deer shot in the brain when hit correctly. It shuts eveything down----instantly.
Anyway, said shot is best advice I can give OP........
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812 |
Right here at the crosshair, or at said joint right next to crosshair will bang flop a deer and keep it there, more reliably than any other shot. I have done it more times than I can remember. Three inches off low-pull it a little, misjudge distance-and you're into brisket. Three to four inches higher or a couple right is the smart bet. Nor is that bundle of nerves all that big of a target and knowing its exact location hidden inside is mostly a guess.
Last edited by battue; 08/07/16.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1 |
I am distrustful of those "every time" shots.Nor in absolutes when it comes to this stuff.
Bob, the only absolute Ive seen is that when a well hit critter collapses on the spot, rear end first, then the front end follows...said critter is not getting up.... a number of different shot placements will accomplish this. But like you, if the critter goes down like a rug has been yanked out from under it, I'm reloaded and watching it through the scope for a while....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,253 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,253 Likes: 15 |
Gotta agree Ingwe.
When the ass end drops, followed by the front end, that animal is DOWN.
Any animal that instantly falls in a different fashion I get suspicious about, and jack another round in for a couple minutes...waiting...
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Ingwe that's an interesting observation. Never really thought about it.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812 |
Where are all the points of aim to hit that small bundle when they are not 90 degree perfect broadside? Or are they always? 😏
laissez les bons temps rouler
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