Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Who prefers a Smith 357/41/44 over an auto for a full size SD gun?

Single plane thinking.


How about the individuals, such as the guy who was shot five times in the face but still coherent enough to drive away?

Or the individuals who have taken multiple rounds yet still continued the fight

S&W M27 with 3 1/2" bbl. Many times guys have said it must be a 4" barrel , but it's not.

Great info Bob on the loads, thanks much Sir. When I ran out of Unique years ago, I switched to Universal Clays, never looked back, seemed much cleaner burning, meters great, and could shoot a load within 1-2 grains and match Unique speeds with accuracy. Might try it if you have not, though I know Unique has a LONG History.......and some may have a good bit stored up.

Always liked the 210 SP for a go to load if not shooting cast, and later began using XTPs. These newer bullets I am not familiar with, but they seem to promise lighter higher speeds in mono, likely matching penetration with greater expansion as traditional slugs. Would that be fair to say?

On the Ruger fan above, had a GP-100 years ago, and other Ruger revolvers, they were/are all Hell for Stout, never loosened up, and can take damn near any sensible load with a case full of proper powder ie 296/110, not 231, unique, you know you can't fill brass up with the fast burning powders. The security six has a great fan base, with good reason, and likewise the SP-101 sure was on my radar and would never give me worry if I carried one.

As to capacity, JWP, as we see recent events unfold, it gives one pause to consider, various potential scenarios, and validates good wisdom might be for all law abiding folks to have "Ample" arms.......whether it be short or long gun.

Oh, last comment on that need for deep penetration for 4-legged Meanies.....a 44 is a gold standard, yet MANY MANY G20 and G29s are toted with Double Tap or Buffalo Bore 10mm in say 220 hard cast driven fast, and they seem to be confident owners, and have apparently taken care of business when the chips are down. I would never say a 10 is better than a heavily loaded 44, or 45 Colt, or other similar rounds, but they seem to penetrate well with proper ammo. I would be pretty comfortable with a well loaded G20 OR 629. I might not feel bad with my 41, but not sure how heavy of bullets can be run in factory twist...might want 250-275 or so, which will surely dig deeper than 210-220s. A 220 would probably do well in a top loaded 41, assuming good config and hard cast. Thinking WIDE Meplat...if available.

Bob, on that 44/200 load, I was fortunate to trade a couple of old Leupolds for a 29-2 years ago, by a gent that did not like the recoil. It was mint. I only tried it with 200 HP, not normally my choice but I wanted a mid-range load. I went 4 grains less than max with either 296 or possibly 110. It shot SWEET, accurate, pleasant. Unfortunately I lost interest and sold it, being the 41 fan I am.....those were WELL Made Smith's....

I quit preferring wheelguns over autos for home defense and CCW years ago. Several reasons for that, including easier concealability (for full size) and higher capacity (even if it is only one more round).

But I still pack an old Security Six sometimes in the hills, and don't feel undergunned. I've put so many rounds through that gun that shooting it is just a natural thing.

Any of the above will do....as long as they carry enough ammo to reach the carbine I have in the trunk.

But I am a wheelgun fan myself.

irrational exuberance Bugger???...were the men in question blind or mentally challenged? I cast no aspersions on your wife's shooting prowess and yet I find it odd that a bunch of men could not hit the center of a target with a glock.

the internet you got to love it..in the meantime back to you Dave Clark...

Wow!

You met some people that can't shoot. That's quite a find!



Clark

You'll never meet any of those kinda folks online. Safest shooting range, safest shooters, top of the line equipment, master of revolver and auto, etc.... That's why I only shoot online. Plus you meet the nicest people....like Clark!

Nothing new...have seen this several times myself... Worst was a guy with a Glock 17... Had a very large bullseye type target out at 7 yards...after most of a magazine there were no holes in the target. Five minutes of "help" and he was putting them all on the target.

Second worst was three guys with ARs and AKs shooting at a zombie target at 30 yards offhand. My female second cousin and her friend who I had taught to shoot were shooting an 8 3/8" Model 657 and a Glock 19 and putting every round on target at 25 yards. When the guys were done shooting the girls asked if they could have their old target down range and they they left it behind when they left. After we finished shooting the girls went and got the target and there were only a few holes in it...but several magazines full had been launched down range...

I saw a LEO launch six slowfire rounds at a Q-Target at 25 yards...and never touch the paper...

Just because it happens to be male and have a gun doesn't mean it can in any way shape or form shoot accurately...

Bob

"Always liked the 210 SP for a go to load if not shooting cast, and later began using XTPs. These newer bullets I am not familiar with, but they seem to promise lighter higher speeds in mono, likely matching penetration with greater expansion as traditional slugs. Would that be fair to say?"

When you have a large caliber rapidly expanding HP it is my feeling one doesn't have to run them at top speed to be effective against two legged targets. Too many of the Magnum bullets like the XTPs need velocity to expand and end up wasting their energy on the far side of the target. And if the velocity is not needed why induce all that recoil that will slow up followup shots if necessary.

The no longer made (I believe) C.O.P.






The Federal is much faster...but recoil is very reasonable...






As to 10mm...don't think a bear hit with a 220 .40 harcast would know the difference between it and a 230 .410 or a 250 grain .429 as they all have a sectional density of .194+- unless there is a substantial difference in velocity...

About the comment on gangs and riots...go look at the videos on YouTube and LiveLeak...one round goes off and everyone is running... The only two multi-subject scenarios I worry about are Mexican drug gangs and Islamic Jihadists...those folks are in to the end...theirs or yours...

Bob

I am convinced now to go 40 ounce 6 shot pistol IWB carry based on this evidence.

Well, to answer the original question, I'm not a fan of a full-sized revolver over an auto for SD. That being said, that's what I'd use if that's what I had with me at the time!

I grew up in a house without guns. Read and read and read and talked about them constantly pleading my case, until finally my grandmother took pity on me for my 15th birthday. After that barrier was broken.. well it's been non-stop every since.

Influenced heavily by my reading, I grew up as a fan of the revolver. I've owned "several". Had a couple semi autos in mind that I kind of, sort of, liked. Got my first semi auto in my mid 20's. Got a couple more in my 30's. By the early 40's, I was down to one revolver, my 4" 629, and the rest were semi autos.

A few years ago, I bought a 3" Taurus 605 to be a trail gun and had just got it broken in good when my parents decided they needed a gun ASAP. They took that one off my hands.

Last weekend, I finally replaced it. I've been torn between the 3" S&W 60 and a 4" SP101. I wanted light weight, .357 capability, and adjustable sights, but intend to almost exclusively use it with .38 level loads. I went with the SP101. It will serve as a SD gun on the trail, as well as other things.

Still wouldn't mind owning another scandium snubby, (but that isn't "full size") and a single action Ruger .480 (SD for bears?).

When I went to the class for CC, the instructor wanted everyone to use a semi-auto to qualify, because of the stupid rules. If you use a wheel gun to qualify, you can not carry a semi, but if you qualify with a semi, you can carry either. Crazy, but true. miles

I started off as a dedicated double action revolver guy. My first concealed carry gun (my first handgun, period) was a Ruger Speed Six. I did my initial training, back in 1980, with that gun and with various S&W double action revolvers (belonging to my instructor). I've gone back and forth between medium and small frame double action revolvers and auto pistols for thirty-six years, but I think I've made the shift permanently now to auto-pistols for "serious social work."

The last revolver that I carried regularly (which I did for several years) was my S&W Model 13 (with stout .38 Special loads). It was both my daily carry and my bedside gun. Excellent choice (assuming you've put in the initial work of learning double action revolver shooting), except for capacity concerns. All things considered, though, a Glock 19 or 17 (also assuming you've put in the initial work of learning it) is an even better choice.

I know exactly what you mean. A double action K-Frame Smith & Wesson, with a buttered-glass-smooth double action, gives a great deal of confidence to someone who knows how to shoot it. Still just six rounds.

I've informally instructed two new shooters within the last year. In both cases, after basic operational instruction for both types, they were first given a medium frame double action revolver (a Ruger Speed Six - told not to touch the hammer), then (after setting up a new target) given a service sized striker fired handgun (in both cases it happened to be a Walther PPQ Compact). In both cases the groups were significantly tighter when the PPQ was used.

Even an excellent, medium frame, double action revolver requires more work to become good than does a modern striker-fired service handgun.

PS In both cases, I first shot a group with both guns (as an example), and the groups were about equally tight.

LOL. Awesome!

65BR... Unique may not be the best but I have some Lil Gun I tried for heavy magnum loads but I don't like to shoot full power 357 loads in my 4 and 2 3/4" pistols.

I get about 900 fps with the 168 gr lead Keith bullet and 1050 with the 158 grain XTP Flat Point in the 4" Security Six. Haven't chronoed the Speed Six.

IMO the 357 is not pleasant to shoot in that fairly light weight revolver with full power loads. One time I got lost in the woods deer hunting and had to signal my buddy with 4 or 5 shots out of the Sec Six to get my bearings and my ears rang for a week. I carry that gun as a sidearm and obviously didn't have ear protection on me at the time.

There is just something caustic about the full power 357. Funny but I used to own 44 mags and they never seemed to be as unpleasant to shoot.

the 9mm is pretty bad as well on your ears.

It's not even remotely close to being as bad as a 357 snubby, for me.