Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Educate me on the 308 for elks

If your shots are typically at extended ranges, I'd be looking at something with a high BC like a AB. Should expand nicely at lower velocities and keep together close in too.

Just double checked the Nosler manual and the 165 AB will still be above 2000fps at 400 yards when starting at 2700. Nearly 100fps more than the 165 PT, if that matters.

Does where you hunt offer lots of long range shots? Where I hunt there are fields that could offer longer shots but the elk, especially the bulls, will not go out in the open. They stay in the thick timber. My longest shot has been 70-80yds.

Lots of folks taking moose in alaska with the 308 and even smaller. I plan on doing the same next year with my compact 308 instead of hauling my 375 around. I took my first moose with that with a center lung shot. After a hole in the lungs from a 300gr A-Frame, the moose still ran and stood around for a few minutes before falling. No matter the cartridge, there's always the chance for an immediate drop or one that takes a few minutes; but as long as the shot ventilates the boiler room, it will die within minutes. I think the keys with the non magnum cartridges are just to make sure to use a bullet suited to the moderate velocity and taking broadside shots directly to the heart-lungs to be safe.

On the range side of things, I am skeptical that even a lower than designed bullet velocity is catastrophic. With less expansion, penetration usually improves so it sort of compensates for a lack of temporary shock cavity, which in all honesty, is not a requisite to make good kills. And, a less expanded .308" bullet will be similar to a better expanded .264" or .277" bullet.

Good point on bullet expansion. I've shot alot of deer with a recurve and 2 blade broadheads. They die quick with a cut through the lungs. I would still feel better with an expanded 30 cal hole through the boiler room.

Bill, if it matters, my 308 MT will be stoked with 165 Hdy BTSP's over Varget for elk season. I have no doubt the combo will work well past 400 yards if needed (I like to get inside of 100 when possible).

I leave in a week with a crappy Kimber and weak 308 with Varget and Leupold. I'll post picks if the 168NBT doesn't bounce off and my scope doesn't fail. That is if I can hit it with the crappy Kimber.

You just sent a few into a tail spin.

Ha ha, sorry, I couldn't help myself.

At least carry it with a quality sling.......

bwinters,

Several comments:

The only problems I've encountered with TSX's not expanding have been with smaller caliber bullets, in particular the 100-grain .25, which didn't open up on a couple of animals, one shot by my wife Eileen and one by me. In both instances there was plenty of velocity on impact, around 2900-3000 fps, so that wasn't the problem. 100-grain TSX's from a different lot expanded fine on a bunch of other animals, but eventually the Tipped TSX came out. We've used it on far more animals without any problems whatsoever--including the last elk Eileen took, using her NULA .257 Roberts on a cow, which dropped right there.

However, Eileen has been using a .308 Winchester for most hunting of larger game for about a decade now, not just here in Montana but the rest of North America and in Africa. It has worked fine, and there's no problem with bullet expansion past 300 yards. The right bullet can be about anything, including the tipped monolithics, which in our experience expand easily. But one of the great virtues of the .308 is the moderate velocity allows just about any bullet to hold together. She normally uses 150-grain bullets, which have worked great, but recently switched to 130 Tipped TSX's, which also work fine.

In reality the .270 and .308 Winchesters are very similar cartridges ballistically, producing about the same muzzle velocity with the same bullet weights. While .270 bullets sometimes have slightly higher BC's, sometimes the opposite is true. Eileen used a .270 as her "big" rifle for many years with great success, taking not only elk but one bull moose--which dropped quicker to a lung shot than any other moose I've seen killed. But she has just as much faith in her .308, and it doesn't recoil quite as much as a .270, due to less "rocket effect" from burning powder leaving the muzzle. It's a light custom rifle, built on one of those "crappy" Kimber actions.

Good info MD - thank you!

I'm going to shoot it this weekend to get it shooting a couple inches high at 100 and see what it does at 200. Either of the crappy action Kimbers will get carried next week.

Thanks for all the comments folks. This is one of the greatest functions of this site. That and I'm going elk hunting over the next 2 weeks with some other Campfire members. Really looking forward to it.

Bill, not sure if you've tried it, but I'd not hesitate to go to 46.5 & 47.0 Varget with the 165 Hdy given the fairly low velocities in the photo of your targets. A 308 can push a 165 safely 2,700 - 2,750 (and even more depending on the powder). Varget will safely get you to 2,740+ with that bullet.

Of course accuracy is more important than a few fps...

I stopped at 46 because Hodgdon indicated that was max charge. I missed the corresponding velocity (2770 in a 24" barrel). I was developing a load for eastern deer, mostly treestands at 100 yards or less, and frankly don't care how fast it's going. The whole use-it-for elk idea was hatched this week while I was practicing with the 308. It also sticks up less when strapped to my backpack. With all the positive reports on this tnread, the idea is growing on me.

I'll run some up to 47, 47.5 and see what happens. The mag box is the limiting factor. The 165 Horn IL jump 0.045" now. Seated 0.015 off, they cloverleaf - cover them with a nickel. I'll not sweat the increase in group size when it's still nets less than an inch.

Is it the BTSP 165 or a Flat Base IL?

Flat base IL.

As for elk and the .308 Win., my late cousin worked for 40 years with the Bureau of Reclamation. He lived in many of the western states and killed 22 elk, mainly bulls in various states.

He also killed a whole bunch of Mule deer, several antelope, a Black bear, and an Idaho Shiras bull moose.

His only rifle was a pre-'64 Winchester 70 Lightweight in .308 Win. He killed all that game with that rifle. I would add he grew up hunting from an early age and was an excellent shot. He stayed in good shape, too.

He was not a reloader. I asked him once what ammo he used? He said, "Whatever was on sale at the sporting goods store so long as it was 180 grains and a pointed soft point."

Yes, the .308 Win. will definitely kill an elk.

L.W.

There is no magic in the name of a caliber.
It’s simply a bullet of a specific diameter and weight traveling at a specific velocity.
Would you be comfortable shooting an elk with a .300 Win. Mag. At 500 yards ?
Well a .308 with the same bullet is moving at about the same velocity at 400 yards.
Know your trajectory and go hunt elk.
Better to hit an elk in the boiler room with a .308 than gut shoot one with a .378 Mag.

155 Secnar
2.790 overall length
45.5 grains of Varget
CCI 200 primer

That's the ticket in every rifle I've shot it in and Mackay Sagebrush and others are killing elk with it regularly.

I will too this year.

Meant to add that when my son was 14, he killed an elk with a 308 and a 150 grain partition gold (moly'd) with little fanfare. Dead right there.

Bill, if you get a chance, give the BT version of the Hdy IL a try. In my MT when seated to an OAL of 2.820 they're .030" off the lands.

I've shot quite a few of these now and all of them have gone sub moa, with many in the .6's. Doesn't seem to matter as to powder charge or velocity. I've loaded 45.5, 46.0 and 46.5 of Varget for 2710, 2740, and 2,770 respectively, and all have given beautiful groups.

I settled on 46.0 @ 2,740 "just because."

From this morning, my last 100 yard group, ready for elk in 13 days: