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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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This thread has potential to get me through a rainy Friday. It's rainin' here, also. 
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If the guy is said to be holding an AR, nine officers at 30 rounds figures to just over 3 rounds per officer. I have no issue with that...All went home safe, good shoot...Although the fact that many were reportedly shot in to cars and houses shows a problem with training... What that tells me is: These officers were all in agreement that the suspect needed to be stopped, and stopped now. If it had only been one officer out of several on the scene shooting, things get a lot more cloudy. But with several officers firing multiple shots, it's probably a good indication that he needed killin'. I have never understood why the number of rounds fired has anything to do with anything at all. The point is to stop the threat, not save bullets. Betcha that judge would keep shooting, if the bad guy was trying to kill HIM!
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
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I have never understood why the number of rounds fired has anything to do with anything at all. The point is to stop the threat, not save bullets. Betcha that judge would keep shooting, if the bad guy was trying to kill HIM! Liberals have co-opted the mantra about meat damage and applied it to police shoots.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
Since when does a Grand Jury interject their opinions, and offer suggestions and recommendations?
This country has gone bat schidt crazy. Me too... as those recommendations apply to whether a person should be held over for trial for criminal actions. Not so much when they get involved in something they are not trained for and offer their opinions on policy, and not adhering to why they convened in the first place. Their opinions on anything other than their duty is just a fart in a windstorm.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
. . .Their opinions on anything other than their duty is just a fart in a windstorm. Kinda like the threads here on the fire!
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,851
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,851 |
If the guy is said to be holding an AR, nine officers at 30 rounds figures to just over 3 rounds per officer. I have no issue with that...All went home safe, good shoot...Although the fact that many were reportedly shot in to cars and houses shows a problem with training... This. Marksmanship training has not received the same level of attention that training in tactics has - that needs to change. This would lead to greater accuracy = more shots on target = faster neutralization of the threat = less bullets off the intended target = less Monday morning (internet & other idiot) quarterbacking - hopefully. Can't get any simpler, because we are not going to change the incidence of mental illness or availability of adequate resources for its treatment. Despite all the politicians' BS about their 'concerns' they have not made MH a public policy priority and instead leave the LE community to have to deal with decompensated deranged individuals, who are lethal threats at that point, and then beat up LEOs who protect the public and do their duty, with self serving political posturing. What I can't figure out is why so many HCF members also beat up on LE. Is there a core of outlaws and wannabes among us masquerading as 'libertarian patriots'?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
I have never understood why the number of rounds fired has anything to do with anything at all. The point is to stop the threat, not save bullets. Betcha that judge would keep shooting, if the bad guy was trying to kill HIM! Liberals have co-opted the mantra about meat damage and applied it to police shoots. My first lesson with this was in the early 80's after I was involved in a shooting incident. Caught a burglar that had been breaking into clinics and stealing drugs. Guy was a 3 time loser. When I rolled up on him he opened fire with his pistol. Both his shots hit the driver's door of my patrol car. I got out and returned fire, shooting 6 rounds out of my revolver. The following morning the Chief told me the City Manager wanted to see me in his office.... That ignorant POS wanted to know why I fired 6 times if the suspect only fired twice at me... 
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
That ignorant POS wanted to know why I fired 6 times if the suspect only fired twice at me... I'd a told him there would have been more, but the guy hauled ass before I reloaded.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,600 |
I just asked him when he got his police training... That meeting didn't last too long. 
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
I have never understood why the number of rounds fired has anything to do with anything at all. The point is to stop the threat, not save bullets. Betcha that judge would keep shooting, if the bad guy was trying to kill HIM! Liberals have co-opted the mantra about meat damage and applied it to police shoots. But that would raise the horrible specter of overpenetration... will blue tape reveal the danger of cops in blue uniforms?
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787 |
Ammunition costs money.......in a time of 'zero increase ' or reduced budgets, ammo is tough to get by bean-counters!
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,810
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,810 |
To be fair Barney on Mayberry only needed one bullet. Good enough for him should be good enough for our police. Oh i'm sorry this is the real world. Carry on. ED K
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,697
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,697 |
I wouldn't consider the use of a "bean bag shotgun" (glad that's not an option) or a K9 under those circumstances, or most others involving a firearm. Aren't you the one usually advocating for citizens to become involved in the selection and training of their local police? curdog4570 You and I know each other so just let me say this! CITIZENS don't have a CLUE about the necessary training that LEO should have to go through....PERIOD! Citizens sit in their homes 'under cover' while the GUYS IN BLUE are out there confronting IDIOTS on a second/minute/hourly/daily basis....giving as we have seen lately their ALL aka their lives to do a job that is thankless from those 'so-called' citizens who find it easy to recap what THEY don't have a frickin clue about! I know....I've been in their shoes for six years and frankly there isn't enough money in the state of Texas to get me to go back to that job and have to put up with not only having to fight the IDIOTS on the streets but a clueless public and a warped judicial system that perform akin to being daily on bad coke!! I am really surprised that you feel the way you apparently do about our law enforcement communities!!
Last edited by Sharpsman; 10/07/16.
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
What I can't figure out is why so many HCF members also beat up on LE. Is there a core of outlaws and wannabes among us masquerading as 'libertarian patriots'? I can't speak for anyone but myself. So...... I just don't like Bureaucrats of any stripe. And Bureaucrats with badges concern me the most, because they are the ones who are legally empowered to take my life, not just my money. The tone of the posts which don't like the Grand Jury's action show that -just like all Bureaucrats- "arrogant citizens" are to be despised and ridiculed. If the "us vs. them" dynamic needs explaining...... I just did. Hang out with the "sheeple" if you want to be idolized.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
The tone of the posts which don't like the Grand Jury's action show that -just like all Bureaucrats- "arrogant citizens" are to be despised and ridiculed. If the "us vs. them" dynamic needs explaining...... I just did.
Hang out with the "sheeple" if you want to be idolized.
You mean the "tone" that they stepped outside of their duties as a juror to editorialize? They have an avenue to get involve otherwise, but co-opting the juris system to opine is not it. Pretty sure had a cop stepped outside of their obligation, no bib in the world would soak up your drool...
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Yep, we do know each other, Mulhern, and I like and respect both you and your son. I especially admire the way he took on the Bureaucracy that had corrupted the business of aviation firefighting.
The biggest mistake that cop defenders make is acting as if ALL Law Enforcement jobs are equal when we know they are not. It is NOT a profession where heroes abound. Most cops will make an entire career having never heard a shot fired in anger.
The guys who will be working to restore electrical service in the wake of a hurricane are at much greater risk than the average cop.
Another mistake is the knee-jerk rush to defend anytime cops ANYWHERE are criticized.
The question posed in THIS thread is simply;"Does a properly empaneled Grand Jury exceed its authority when it returns a no bill in investigating a use of force incident, but goes a step farther in finding that the cops' actions, while not criminal, are certainly troubling?"
So.... I'll ask you.... If Police Departments are not accountable to their fellow citizens, who are they accountable to?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
They have an avenue to get involve otherwise, but co-opting the juris system to opine is not it. If what they did was illegal, why weren't they arrested?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,697
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,697 |
Yep, we do know each other, Mulhern, and I like and respect both you and your son. I especially admire the way he took on the Bureaucracy that had corrupted the business of aviation firefighting.
The biggest mistake that cop defenders make is acting as if ALL Law Enforcement jobs are equal when we know they are not. It is NOT a profession where heroes abound. Most cops will make an entire career having never heard a shot fired in anger.
The guys who will be working to restore electrical service in the wake of a hurricane are at much greater risk than the average cop.
Another mistake is the knee-jerk rush to defend anytime cops ANYWHERE are criticized.
The question posed in THIS thread is simply;"Does a properly empaneled Grand Jury exceed its authority when it returns a no bill in investigating a use of force incident, but goes a step farther in finding that the cops' actions, while not criminal, are certainly troubling?"
So.... I'll ask you.... If Police Departments are not accountable to their fellow citizens, who are they accountable to? You know....and I know as well that any public agency should always be 'accountable' to the public-at-large! With that being stated.....we...as the 'public' put into placement officials whom should have years of experience with the task of training LEOs in the exercise of proper procedure! As I have stated quite often.....part of the problem involving many cases as we read about IMO is those doing the 'vetting' need themselves to be more thoroughly 'vetted'! I'm intelligent enough to know that not all individuals whom have a badge hung on their chest won't...and don't make good law enforcement officers but in many instances, especially on this forum, the general consensus seems to be that 'one sorry bastard' winds up painting all officers with the same brush!! I appreciate your statement reference Brandon!! Hope you're doing well!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,916
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,916 |
I can see it now.
Cops:hey man can you wait a minute while i clear this with my boss.
Bad guy:screw this it's taking to long i am going home.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I'm doing fine and enjoying retirement.... thanks for asking.
Law Enforcement Agencies, like many private businesses, would benefit from firing half their employees and doubling the wages of the other half.
A case in point..... if NINE officers could respond to this one call, there are too many cops around.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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