Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Geronimo, one of the ten greatest Americans who ever lived.

Check out " On the Border with Crook" by JG Bourke
It was written in the 1890's i believe. Lot of propaganda for Crook and the author in it but also some interesting stories.

As well as "An Apache Campaign in the Sierra Madre". Also by Bourke. A good little read. Not as long as "On the Border...." But good.

They are cookin their own meth on the rez now so that should cut down on profits made by the evil white bastadge fire water dealers in White Clay. The rez could bankrupt White Clay by enforcing DWI and Intoxication rules on the Rez, cutting entitlements to habitual offenders, but there must be some healthy cash "gifts" back to Council members to grease the way for alcohol.

nonsense.

Disturbing to say the least, but on a contemplative note, total war, down through the ages has included the killing of children. War in its evil is an empirical evidence of man's total depravity; John Wesley points to war in the world as evidence of Paul's doctrine and man's fallen state. Then there are the Psalms of imprecation we tend to skip over because they are hard to digest:

Psalm 137:9 various translations:

KJ21 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
ASV Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones Against the rock.
AMP How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.
AMPC Happy and blessed shall he be who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!
BRG Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
CEB A blessing on the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock!
CJB A blessing on anyone who seizes your babies and smashes them against a rock!
CEV May the Lord bless everyone who beats your children against the rocks!
DARBY Happy he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock.
ERV Bless the one who grabs your babies and smashes them against a rock

We fire bombed over 60 German cities and wholesale slaughtered civilians in that war by the thousands upon thousands; they say mostly due to England's visceral desire for revenge.

I dunno... I am trying to figure it all out but sometimes I cannot. I am alive today because Truman pulled the trigger and nuked the Japs. Otherwise my dad was staged to invade and they think a million souls would have been lost.

Killing in war, especially in tribal war in defense of family, is not murder, not even in the strictest context of biblical morality. In fact, it could be argued that if the "elders" and able bodied men don't defend their families and tribe they are murdering them through dereliction.

How else to reason it through in hindsight?

Was Geronimo supposed to submit to murder and conquest without resisting?

Isn't this the question we have to face ourselves as our society continues to implode due to our insane national commitment to a diversity-suicide-pact?

I have a Kephart-style knife made by a fellow in Missouri that I like alot. If you're interested in a Kephart-style knife, he sells them under the name "yllowcrk" on eBay for under $40.

Ol' Horace loved him some Luger too!

Hey don't forget your Henry V speech to the people at Hafleur!

A portion;

"Your Naked infants SPITTED upon pikes while their mad mothers with their howls confused, do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry at Herod's bloody hunting slaughtermen!"


He does preceded it with some virgin raping and braining of old geezers. Well, it is the Bard at his finest.

And I mr kaywoodie, have a pistola that killed a bear in the sierra madre's around 1910. A colt.

A little light reading-

"The following examples come from the book, A Fate Wore Than Death; Indian Captivities in the West; 1830-1885 by Gregory and Sussan Michno."

Some examples of such atrocities follow (warning: if you are sensitive to graphic descriptions of torture, please stop reading now.

When Indians attacked a farm or small settlement, fathers and husbands were usually slaughtered and scalped (not always in that order). They were sometimes mutilated and disemboweled. Sometimes their own genitals were cut off and stuffed in their mouths—sometimes in front of their wives and children!

Women were often taken captive, though not always. Mrs. Lee was shot in the back with an arrow. Her children watched as warriors scalped her, cut off her ears and chopped off her arms.

Indians would sometimes pretend to be friendly in order to get food—and then after they had eaten they would turn on the settlers and slaughter them, or slaughter the men and kidnap their wives and children.

Some of the tortures to which women and children captives were subjected include dripping sizzling fat on captives bare legs, repeatedly sticking a flaming stick up a captive’s nose, being beaten with sticks and whips, women being stripped naked, knocked down, repeatedly beaten (regularly for days, weeks and months on end), stoned, or stamped on.

Some women and children were forced to walk nearly naked and barefoot through briars and cacti. They were often given little or nothing to eat. Some who were finally rescued were just skin and bones. The women were often (usually?) sexually assaulted, often gang raped, sometimes by every man in the tribe and sometimes repeatedly for months or years on end.

There was a case in which a woman was dragged by the hair for about 200 yards before being stripped and raped. Then an arrow was shoved up under her shoulder blade and she was scalped alive. She lived for about four days.

In another case, warriors shoved a woman into an icy river, laughing as they made a game of beating her back with clubs and poles when she tried to reach the shore. When they tired of the game, they shot and killed her.

There was a case in which a warrior got upset at a captive baby’s crying so he ripped the baby from its mother’s arms, threw the baby on the ground and speared it as the mother was forced to watch.

In another case a mother’s baby was tossed up in the air and let fall the ground repeatedly until the baby died—and the mother was forced to watch. There were cases in which mothers were forced to watch their babies starve to death. Children were sometimes forced to watch their mothers and fathers beaten to death.

In one attack a young girl witnessed her father being slaughtered (that was common). Then her pregnant mother was ripped open and the baby torn out. The warriors then took turns raping the girl before finally burning her to death.

It was not uncommon for family members to be raped, burned, scalped or otherwise tortured and killed in front of other family members. Sometimes the bloody scalps of dead family members would be smeared in the faces of other family members. Imagine being forced to watch your father be tortured to death, your mother raped and tortured, and then have their bloody scalps smeared in your face! For example, a boy watched as Indians sliced open his sister to remove her unborn baby, which they then nailed to a tree.

In another case, a woman was physically unable to work as hard as her Apache captors required so she was tortured to death while her daughter was forced to watch.

In another case when a family was attacked, their oldest daughter was raped in front of the family. Then one of her breasts was cut off (while she was still alive) and she was scalped alive before they finally killed her by slitting her throat.

In another case, a woman was forced to watch as her female friend was beaten to death with fire wood. The woman was also forced to watch as the Indians used her friend's corpse for target practice. Finally, the corpse was scalped and the friend was repeatedly whipped in the face with her dead friend’s bloody scalp.

Some of the things these poor people were forced to endure were unbelievably, heartwrenchingly, cruel one would think they were demonically inspired. For example, warriors laughed as they made a game of throwing a two year old captive up in the air, allowing the child to smash into the ground until the child finally died. In another case, warriors dragged a baby and toddler from their mother’s arms and beat them with stove wood in front of the mother, leaving them for dead. In another case, a warrior held a baby upside down, hacked it to bits with his tomahawk and then threw the body parts in the face of the mother. The mother was then burned alive on her bed.

In yet another case, a mother was forced to watch as an Indian women (sometimes Indian women were worse than the men) whipped her five year old daughter in the face with rawhide and then grabbed her arm and leg and slammed her to the ground repeatedly. Still alive, the Indian tied the little girl up and used her as a knife throwing target until the child finally died. And her mother had to watch it all.

When a 13 year old boy became too sick to travel the Indians threw the boy into a fire and forced his grandmother watch while he burned to death

When a captive child would not stop crying and clinging to his mother, an Indian chief smashed him to the ground and stomped on him.

When a three year old child cried, she was tortured by being cut with arrowheads. She survived and was eventually freed but, not surprisingly, suffered serious emotional problems for the rest of her life.

When Indians found a baby hidden in a box under a bed, they smashed him against the wall. Two other children had their brains bashed out on an oak tree A 13 year old girl was starved and raped nightly by various warriors.

A seven year old girl was separated from her mother in the Indian camp. She cried uncontrollably until she finally happened to see her mother again. When she ran to her mother, the Indians punished her but burning her feet in a fire until she was unable to walk.

The warriors cut a baby’s throat and held it upside down by the heals before the eyes of its mother and laughed as she screamed and fainted.

After meeting some of the rescued captives and hearing what they had endured, General George Custer told his men that if his beloved wife were to ever fall into the hands of Indians, they were to shoot her dead rather than allow her to be taken.

There is a reason white settlers referred to Indian captivity as a fate worse than death. There is a reason settlers referred to Indians as "savages." One woman was actually happy when she learned that her Indian captors were planning to burn her at the stake because being burned alive at the stake was preferable to the tortures she had been forced to endure.

These atrocities were not committed by one or two Indian tribes. They were committed by tribes like the Apaches, Sioux, Comanches, Araphaoes, Cheyennes, Blackfoot, Lakotas, Shoshones, Bannocks, Mojaves, Yavapais, Crow, Kiowas, Kickapoos, Utes, and Chiricahuas.

Indians and Muslims not a lot of difference in the two.

There's no argument that they were brutal, that war is brutal. Their brutality is ancient and they showed little deference for white or Indian, they all received the same treatment. They also understood that if they didn't fight to the death they would receive the same treatment. No quarter given, no quarter asked.

Much of the dismemberment was symbolic or spiritual. A woman with no hands would not be desirable in the next life. Same as a man with no genitalia.

A half notch above a pack of rabid wolves.

Nothing new there. The Great Father doesn't keep his promises even today.

L.W.

Yup! Them eastern tribe were no Sunday school bunch either (excepting for them Moravian Indians, but things didn't work out too well for them. )

One Difference being many time captives were taken so they'd have something to eat on while on the March home! Yum!

Yep. There's a lot to learn from history....

The buffalo had to go to solve the "Indian Problem".
Just so happened the hides were worth good money back
East and England (at least). Read that alot of the big
belts that drove industrial-size motors were buffalo hide.

Pretty sure they didn't drive motors, more likely they were driven by water wheels or steam engines.
Electric motors were kinda scarce back then.

The great kill off of the buffalo began because the mills and factories in the east demanded belts made of buffalo leather to drive their machinery, as it was tougher and lasted longer than leather from domestic cattle. The kill off was largely commercial. There was a small demand for robes. Railroad hunters and dudes shooting from trains were a very small factor. The U.S. Army was an accomplice in the decimation as it used the buffalo hunters as a tool for forcing the plains Indians to go on the reservation by refusing to enforce treaties which supposedly forbid hunters from hunting buffalo on Indian treaty lands in the Texas Panhandle and Western Indian Territory (Oklahoma).