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Joined: Nov 2011
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
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I'm looking at taking over my father in law's small, not very successful gun shop and had some questions/concerns. Can I make a decent living at it and provide for my growing family? What are some of the gotchas to look out for? How much of a pain is the ATF? Should I specialize in any one thing? What should I avoid at all cost?
I'd ask my father in law these things but he hasn't been doing it long and the shop is more of just something to do rather than really generate income. He needs lots of help to really get it going. I'd come in and make some significant changes that he might not like. It's in a small rural town and would be the only shop within a 20 minute drive. I think the market is here as I've always got guys asking me about gun stuff at work and I'm handing out business cards pretty frequently.
Anyway, I just wanted to get actual insights, opinions, and advice from those in the know. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and it not be a good move for my family. Thanks
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2006
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I don't have the answers for you, but good luck. I hope your venture is very successful.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
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You would need a good location
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Joined: Jul 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2016
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Location and price. It's hard for local shops to compete with online prices.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
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and with the election over, and Trump winning, sales are already going WAY down from what they were over the last few years.
Sam......
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Been going in and out of a LGS for many years, good friend with the owner.
At one time he stocked, and was a 'Dealer' for major manufacturers. Dropped that because some make you stock/BUY stuff that you can't sell.
He sells most of his stuff on-line, much larger market, obviously.
He hustles his Azz off buying, estates, yard sales, going out of business shops, whatever. He's a major scrounger...knows the local Pawn guys, and buys stuff from them, they keep an eye out for stuff for him...
Sells very few NEW guns. Will order anything you want, but so can you, which he would prefer, send to his shop he does the transfer.
Occassionally he hits a 'home Run' on a piece, but mostly makes something off each, is not afraid to box and ship.
Also, and It is probably huge $ wise, he has absolutely NO compunction about taking a very fine firearm and selling it off piece-by-piece. Just a few weeks ago he had a beautiful Browning shotgun, with stunning wood.... wood came off was sold on E-BAY(larger market than GunBroker), and the BBl'd action sold on GunBroker, more $s apart than together. Not sure I could do that.
He 'knows' guns AND couldn't care less about keeping one. I've seen some wonderful stuff come through his shop, very desireable, collectable, stuff you would just 'have' to keep.....he doesn't care....
He is successful!
ATF?? He follows the rules.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2003
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Somethings to consider, most shooters are cheap. reloaders will drive 60 miles to get $.50 off on an eight pound can of powder. They buy firearms on line and pay just about what the gun shop would have gotten in profit if the gun was purchased at the store.
The only way to make a living is to deal with used fire arms and accessories.
Jim
"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,181 Likes: 3 |
The only way to make a living is to deal with used fire arms and accessories. ....and know (I mean really KNOW) your market area; what's hunted, with what (rifle/shotgun) and whether it's a wealthy clientele or not.. Know how to do some basic repairs. Your labor might be the most profitable part of the store.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Campfire Regular
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It is difficult to answer a question like this when you do not know how good of a businessman someone is or how motivated they are to succeed.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times.
Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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Been going in and out of a LGS for many years, good friend with the owner.
At one time he stocked, and was a 'Dealer' for major manufacturers. Dropped that because some make you stock/BUY stuff that you can't sell.
He sells most of his stuff on-line, much larger market, obviously.
He hustles his Azz off buying, estates, yard sales, going out of business shops, whatever. He's a major scrounger...knows the local Pawn guys, and buys stuff from them, they keep an eye out for stuff for him...
Sells very few NEW guns. Will order anything you want, but so can you, which he would prefer, send to his shop he does the transfer.
Occassionally he hits a 'home Run' on a piece, but mostly makes something off each, is not afraid to box and ship.
Also, and It is probably huge $ wise, he has absolutely NO compunction about taking a very fine firearm and selling it off piece-by-piece. Just a few weeks ago he had a beautiful Browning shotgun, with stunning wood.... wood came off was sold on E-BAY(larger market than GunBroker), and the BBl'd action sold on GunBroker, more $s apart than together. Not sure I could do that.
He 'knows' guns AND couldn't care less about keeping one. I've seen some wonderful stuff come through his shop, very desireable, collectable, stuff you would just 'have' to keep.....he doesn't care....
He is successful!
ATF?? He follows the rules. The only way to do it today. Think 16 hour days and LOTS of weekends. If you bust azz you will be financially rewarded but there are other costs. My happiest day was when I accepted the check for mine, kept right on 'smithing from home, even for the new owner.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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I'm not a gunshop owner, but I do have some financial intrest in a couple. Here are somethings to consider.
The ATF is usually not much of a problem unless you are. There are some exceptions depending on current politics and who is manning the district office. Keep your records correctly, be as helpful as possible, and remember that the agents aren't allowed to use commonsense so don't argue, and you will do fine.
You are not going to make much money off of ammo. Walmart can sell it for less because they don't have to pay the awful hazardous fees for transportation and can buy it by the truck load, you can't. That being said, there is a lot of ammo that Walmart doesn't sell that will make you money, but that depends on who your customer base is. If it is 24hourcampfire looneys, expensive unusual stuff will sell. If it is once a year Joe Bobs, it won't.
Guns are also dependant on your customer base. You can't compete with the large places like Dick's, Academy, Walmart on low end guns. They order truck loads of guns with special low end finishes and stocks, that they can sell cheaper (often as a loss leader) than you can buy one. There is some margin for profit in midrange and expensive guns, as well as quality used guns. Just depends on who you can get in the store and how knowledgeable they are.
Firearm accessories are a high profit margin, but it's very easy to stock too much of the wrong items. If something is selling hot today, by the time you stock up, the fad may be over and your stuck with it or sell it at a loss.
There are other profitable things you can do with local gun clubs, gun shows, CCW classes, etc...but its lots of work, and that depends on you.
It is a rewarding job with lots of good people to deal with. Of course there is the "other public" too, but those you have to deal with in any public situation. Good Luck!
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost....
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,098 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,098 Likes: 12 |
This is an interesting thread for me. Basically in same boat as you.
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,385 Likes: 3 |
Forget it. If small gun shops worked, you would see lots of them. You will find that most people will want something you don't have for a price you can't afford.
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Last one I know of around here the old original owner,virtually lived there 16-18 hours 7 days a week. Made a great living,but that's all he did no vacations, no hunting. His S I L took it over and ran regular hours closed on Sun. and stuff and was gone within a couple years!!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,835 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,835 Likes: 3 |
You would need a good location I would tend to agree with this, but.... friend of mine has been in business forty years now, very successful, up on a hill in the middle of nowhere on a back road. Started off in the family barn, built a brand new building after about 15 years. Has worked his azz off all that time but does very well.
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,378 Likes: 10 |
My good buddy ran one for years in a small rural area. Poor client base for the most part. You can sell used guns online all day long, but you need inventory. You need people to bring in guns for you to buy, and as was mentioned in the excellent post above, know the pawn shops and dealers around you and buy specialty guns from them. With a storefront, people need a reason to come in, so you either have to have a reputation as a great place to sell a firearm or you have to have product they need.
Also mentioned, gun guys and especially reloaders are cheap bastards, so you have to have thick skin. My buddy ended up folding because he was SICK TO DEATH of the guys he called "booger pickers". Come in, paw all the guns on the rack, dry fire them, ask a million questions, bash Obama get all worked up, not buy anything and leave.
He tried doing lots of online scouring for guns so being interrupted constantly by people that never had any cash to spend and just wanted to bullshit wore him out.
I think a high traffic location in a busy town would be key. In small rural areas people use gunshops as entertainment, not necessarily a place to buy something they're looking for.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
You can make any business work if you find your niche and work hard. One of my best friends closed his shop Saturday and retired to the Hill Country...at 45. He made a MINT over the last 10 years, selling the stuff that people thought was going to be taken away, namely AR's and Class III. Before Obama came along, it was a struggling pawn shop that he had inherited from his father. Timing is everything.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
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I'm not a gunshop owner, but I do have some financial intrest in a couple. Here are somethings to consider.
The ATF is usually not much of a problem unless you are. There are some exceptions depending on current politics and who is manning the district office. Keep your records correctly, be as helpful as possible, and remember that the agents aren't allowed to use commonsense so don't argue, and you will do fine.
You are not going to make much money off of ammo. Walmart can sell it for less because they don't have to pay the awful hazardous fees for transportation and can buy it by the truck load, you can't. That being said, there is a lot of ammo that Walmart doesn't sell that will make you money, but that depends on who your customer base is. If it is 24hourcampfire looneys, expensive unusual stuff will sell. If it is once a year Joe Bobs, it won't.
Guns are also dependant on your customer base. You can't compete with the large places like Dick's, Academy, Walmart on low end guns. They order truck loads of guns with special low end finishes and stocks, that they can sell cheaper (often as a loss leader) than you can buy one. There is some margin for profit in midrange and expensive guns, as well as quality used guns. Just depends on who you can get in the store and how knowledgeable they are.
Firearm accessories are a high profit margin, but it's very easy to stock too much of the wrong items. If something is selling hot today, by the time you stock up, the fad may be over and your stuck with it or sell it at a loss.
There are other profitable things you can do with local gun clubs, gun shows, CCW classes, etc...but its lots of work, and that depends on you.
It is a rewarding job with lots of good people to deal with. Of course there is the "other public" too, but those you have to deal with in any public situation. Good Luck! I've been around the gun industry as consumer and helped numerous business owners over the years, across the country. This post is, IMHO, is an excellent summary of the basic problem set for a small gun shop business. The margin on the commercial firearm sales is razor thin. You can't overstate the challenge of competing with the big box stores for price on firearms and ammo. The internet is another drain on the market for the small business, your customer base can see what the market value is across the nation, not just locally. Gun Shows are fun, but most long running shows already have an established "local crowd" of dealers that do the majority of buying and selling, often before it gets in the door. It can be be a hard crowd to break into. Going to a show means a Friday travel and set-up, with a late Sunday tear-down and return. Hauling in the Sport-Family-Truckster works, but trailers,trucks, long gun cases, and small things make it much easier. There's a lot that goes into setting up at a show, and each show has requirements for security that need to be met. Most shows require handguns to be secured to the table, and investment into "something" that meets their requirements. We have one local shop that is open Mon-Thursday, partial day on Friday, and gun-show only for Sat-Sun. They do OK, but I know they miss customers on the weekend at their store front, customer that continue down the street a couple blocks to the store that is open on weekends. IMHO, about one out of 25 people at your table are actually buyers, most are "just looking" and passing time looking for a deal/steal on a firearm. You are going have to look rent, power, phone/cable/internet, insurance before taking a plunge, what are the set bills that have to be paid before profit each month?
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Member
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I remember an old saying," How to make a little money in a gun shop, start with a lot of money."
NRA Life Member 1969
OGCA
US Army 1954-1956
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You should have been open 15 years ago when I passed by there on 75 Hwy 3 weekends out of 4 when I was in college....
I don't know anything about running a store, but an observation from a hardware store local to me. He does FFL transfers $10 each. I asked him why he wasn't $20 or $30 like everybody else around here. "That's the easiest $10 I make all day." He does have piles of used guns and quite a few new, from the entry level, synthetic matte finished stuff on up to the "higher" end (for rural Missouri), 1885's, SuperGrade Model 70's, Beretta autoloaders. Pay with check or cash and get a discount. He is the only gunshop within a minimum of 30 miles, and is always busy.
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