Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 223 Ackley in AR?

I get that and I'm not trying to be argumentative about it. I'm just asking what gains you hope to see.

I don't know what RDF stands for.



Travis

That's pretty impressive.



Travis

Understand. I wouldn’t be fooling with the 223 AI except for the match rules. 280 AI on the other hand is very interesting to me. RDF is a Nosler HPBT target bullet. I’d like to run heavier but will have to see where the lands end up when the barrel arrives around the 15th.

125 fps more of less in an AR. And no trimming is nice
White oak chambered both mine. 26"

Ran 80s at 2900 with 25.8 RE-15 VV540 will get another 50 fps

223 Ackley gains around 25 fps over the 223 when run at the same pressures.

those people saying I was crazy for not recommending this in an AR 15 read this link about the shortening the headspace to a .004 crush fit.

https://books.google.com/books?id=n...ng%20headspace%20on%20ackley&f=false

is using a crush fit in an AR 15 a good idea? would it cause problems with the bolt going into battery? potentially.

The reason why the headspace is set back in an ackley cartridge and which many gunsmiths don't even do correctly is because when the gun fires the cartridge grips the walls of the chamber at the most critical moment during the round firing before the brass has a chance to spring back. This causes the case to stretch at the back, which is the last possible place you want it, and can lead to case head separations. holding this tightly by shrinking headspace keeps this from happening and causes the brass to flow in the unsupported area. I suppose the work around for this would be either forming brass in another gun or buying 223 ackley brass which I don't know is available.

I suspect many people with 223 AI ar15's don't load the brass that many times or are getting away with it for some other reason. The fact is a correct ackley chamber done the right way has a .004 crush fit in head space.

notice all the dumbschits here who called me out and said how stupid I am, clueless.

I don't know what you think that proves? Are you insinuating that no gunsmiths know this and incorporate it in their builds? are you insinuating that without the "proper .004" setback in headspace will render the firearm useless? Clearly there are people running AI in AR's. I am trying really hard not to bash you, but you have brought zero to the table and zero to defend your claim. So what exactly are you saying? I am sitting here scratching my head.

I don't care you can be more interested in group forum pack mentality or you can learn something. what I am saying is YES! there are many gunsmiths who don't properly set the barrel back when they are modifying an existing chamber to ackley. I posted a link to the set back I mentioned from PO ackleys book. as to zero to the table, did you read why this crush fit is needed? go back and read what I said. the same thing applies to a fresh newly made ackley chamber, THERE MUST BE A CRUSH FIT, the headspace must be shortened to do it properly. get mad all you want say I am full of it. google ackley chamber crush fit and do your own research on the subject. the brass is gripping the sides of the chamber this causes the brass to stretch at the back instead of the front of the case, upon firing. This is why ackley shortened the headspace on his chambers when they were recut to ackley. its improper to simply run an ackley reamer into a chamber without the set back. my point was I don't think crush fit and smaller headspace is a good idea in an AR 15. I was bashed by the know it alls on here.

Good lord, you size a case to the chamber size. Pretty dang simple.

As to not loading a case a lot, I know someone that routinely loaded their AI cases a lot, and did a torture test up to 26 firings before deciding he was loosing enough cases to dump that batch...

I"ve actually seen more ICS from standard 223 cases than AI, probably because folks that do AI understand how it works, how to make and keep it working and understand its no big deal.

The 223AI is only worth about 50fps over the 223 running at the same pressure.

There's no "WSM magic" happening. You may be able to run it a little higher pressure in a gas gun because it has a straighter case, but then you could run a 223 higher with a carrier weight too.

So P.O.Ackley's the only gun smith allowed to innovate? If someone does things different than it's written in some book it's automatically wrong?

You sound like the Flat Earther who just crashed his rocket in the California Desert.

Never mind clearly you are here to argue. I asked you a simple question that you did not answer. I read your post. I got it that you just want to argue. Have fun. Clearly the AI works in AR's.

Really, I don't have a pressure gauge but I've loaded and shot a few hundred thousand 223 and 223 AI combined. With a standard 223 24.7 gr of Re-15 (or Varget) and an 80 Sierra loaded long about all you get in the case and at that point brass life suffers on some barrels. With the same combo in a 223AI I can drop 26 gr of 15 (with less compression) and get great brass life. So I'm thinking with a 5% increase in powder charge I might expect a tad more than 25fps. I will stand by my 125 fps increase, because that is my experience . With 77's you are going to need to reduce AI charges a full grain to start. And as Rost states there is another aspect to the AI and I firmly believe it reduces bolt thrust in an AR. I also think it may decrease throat erosion.

As long as there is some positive headspace in an Ackley chamber firefoming is a non issue and good 223 shoots just as well as formed cases. I think mine were set up at maybe +0.001-2. Fired many 1000 rounds FF and never lost a case I can remember. Just make sure your gunsmith know WTF he is doing. I saw another shooter fire a 200-14x at 300RF while FF 223 in his Ackley. Chambering an AI and rechambering one are two different things.Had one AR Lilja,used, and my guy set it back a turn...one of the best barrels I've had... but rechambering is a lot of set up and a good reamer to get it right

If I were to build a new longish range AR for Varmints/deer it would be a 223AI. Krieger 1/7 22' varmint I would use 77 Scenars loaded to 2.30", LC or WCC brass and ACS (Stoner) 10 round mags loaded 6-7 down for function. If I was shooting gophers, for FF, I would load 60 gr Sierra or Hornady HP with any stiff 223 load be amazed again. 8208, H4895, or AA 2015 all work well. AS do 10's of others...as would any 52-55 gr bullet you might feed it. IMO, on an AR, the 22 Nosler and 224 valkyrie are a joke for someone that handloads given brass, bolt life, and barrel quality. I would not buy any [bleep] of the shelf were it me

You have an AR chambered in 223AI?

No. Several friends have had them and they don't seem worth the bother to me.
I don't even run carrier weights for 223s.

Anyone who's pressure tested any AI will find at the same pressure they gain at best 50 fps.

Yes, plenty of people run them 150 fps faster than the parent chambering, but most of that gain in velocity is from running higher pressure.

OK: Sounds like you guys have it all figured out. Do you know anyone who has pressure tested them? I get 10+ reloads on Lapua, or WCC brass running 80s at 2900 fps.. Guess I need to do a little more research.

Oldie but good. This was just as match rifle shooters picked up on the 223AI

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

You don't ever need carrier weights if the gas port is correct for what you are doing.... if the port is to big, someone isn't thinking through what they have chambered etc... weights, to me, have always been a band aid.