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#11166472 - 05/05/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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fourbore Offline
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NewEngland USA
Thanks, that does all seem to work

AIH 728 BP
#11177435 - 05/10/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

[Linked Image]

Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

[Linked Image]

Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt
further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.

[Linked Image]

Here is another picture of the PH 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed

[Linked Image]

Last edited by hubel458; 05/11/16.

Ed Hubel
#11254887 - 06/17/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on 12ga slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

[Linked Image]


Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
#11292926 - 07/06/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
About the local fellow here making 375 wildcat with our 585 case-


Hello Mr. Hubel,


We just got back on Saturday from competing at the King of 2 Miles Match in New Mexico.


We won! I came in first shooting my rifle (the one I brought over and showed you),

chambered in .375 Lethal Magnum, the round I designed based off of your case.


I’m attaching a bunch of pictures, feel free to post any of them that you want.

I do have one picture of the screen of the camera system looking at the 2500-yard target.

The hit farthest to the left and the hit farthest to the right were my 1st and 2nd shots.



I’m getting more interest in this cartridge now that the results

from this match are spreading across the web.

Happy 4th!

Take care,


Mitchell Fitzpatrick

Lethal Precision Arms

1(989)578-2576



--------------------------------------


Will have pics soon, his case is close to 375 Warlord case

with a shorter neck, and longer to shoulder.

Got guys getting 585HE cases, they all think we have

''the'' case to wildcat... Ed


Ed Hubel
#11325190 - 07/22/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
.
Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.


[Linked Image]



Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.


[Linked Image]



That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.Ed


[Linked Image]







Ed Hubel
#11357889 - 08/07/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.

Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----

b.bertram1bigpond.com ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).



[Linked Image]


Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed


[Linked Image]








Ed Hubel
#11474354 - 10/01/16 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

[Linked Image]


Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.

[Linked Image]


I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,


[Linked Image]


Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
#11714538 - 01/06/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,

[Linked Image]


We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
#11725536 - 01/09/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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4ager Offline
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This thread is just damned cool.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
#11729148 - 01/11/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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BCSteve Offline
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BC, Canada
650gr at 2900fps!!! Holy $hit!

#11730459 - 01/11/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: BCSteve]  
Joined: Jul 2007
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GuyM Offline
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Washington - dry side
Originally Posted by BCSteve
650gr at 2900fps!!! Holy $hit!


Ya, that pretty well sums it up. Dang...


#11770459 - 01/25/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: GuyM]  
Joined: Jan 2005
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222Rem Offline
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If ever the Campfire had a truly epic thread, this one's it.

It's a whole 'nother world I know nothing about, but it's fun reading. Thank you.


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
#11787018 - 01/31/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
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hubel458 Offline
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hubel458  Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
#11891391 - 03/11/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
Joined: Feb 2003
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hubel458 Offline
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hubel458  Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..

[Linked Image]



Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.

[Linked Image]


Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.

[Linked Image]


Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our bigger case .Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
#11986260 - 04/20/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
Joined: Feb 2003
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hubel458 Offline
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hubel458  Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Anyone wanting to build 4 bore I got barrel to sell, 300 bucks,all

chambered for ours and Ken Owen's 4 bore case. Pm if interested.

And I know guy who has 4 bore cases and loading deal to sell.Ed


Ed Hubel
#11995325 - 04/24/17 Re: Been testing the 12GA From Hell-- [Re: hubel458]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 577
hubel458 Offline
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hubel458  Offline
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Brinton,Mich.
Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.

[Linked Image]


Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed

[Linked Image]


Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.

[Linked Image]

Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..


[Linked Image]


Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed


Ed Hubel
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