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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,728
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
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I would bet on water in the fuel. They didn't by chance get in some "Colorado" crap? It is already E10. Does your fuel come from Montana or Utah, Idaho, or local Wyo. stuff. If the battery was bad, you may have fouled plugs with a weak spark.
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
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fwiw, the last trouble i had, my load tester was miles away. there is an auto zone store 2 blocks away so i took it there. dilbert the parts boy sez sir your battery is kaput. i knew that was wrong so as soon as i could access my own test equipment i found my alternator was no good just like i thought it was. new alternator fixed me right up. i've also had to look up my own parts because they didn't have the slightest clue what i was talking about.
a free diagnosis is worth exactly what you pay for it
sorry, no helpful hints as i have no experience with those kind of frigid temperatures. i can say for sure that the gas we buy these days is about half water and half pee. was the pump pressure at the rail in spec ?
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
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It sounds like ice-slush in the fuel filter. The fuel pump runs till it reaches pressure then shuts off so I'm still thinking fuel filter.
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
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as bad as the gasoline is these days changing the fuel filter frequently is not a bad idea, although many newer vehicles that i know of (fords) no longer have a serviceable fuel filter
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11 |
If your temp have been like our (nothing above the teens for about 3 weeks) I suspect one has frozen water in the line, pump, or filter. That's one of the components one gets as alcohol degrades. I'd try getting it into a heated garage and pop the filter, dump it, let it warm in the house, and try dumping it again to see if any melt occurred.
1Minute
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,712 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,712 Likes: 12 |
I tried the starting fluid, I think it made it harder to start. Almost like it had to evaporate before the motor would start then run for 2-3 seconds and die. Do you have air flow thru the filter?? You've most likely done this but if not open the air filter box and pull the filter and try it. If the engine won't pick up when you spray starter fluid in the air intake you may be oxygen starving it. Course if there's ice in the fuel line you're fuel starving. That's a SWAG from a shade tree mechanic but I'd check it. If you somehow got water in the filter and it froze or if there's anything else in there to cause a serious occlusion it would create problems. But a code reader is more likely the gem.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,250 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,250 Likes: 9 |
Does it have a chip in the key? Our Expedition does exactly that with one of the keys, which is now retired as a starter key. The chip went bad. We keep it on our person when traveling as a spare door opener in case we lock the real keys inside. Been known to happen.... . And it went bad just like THAT- overnight you might say. One day it worked, the next it did not. But it sounds like water...
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38 |
If its still below freezing there could be some water in the gas that has frozen in the line or filter. My first thought too. Can't hurt to add Heet.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209 Likes: 1 |
Most gas is already 10% ethanol. Any water in the tank would already have been put into solution by the ethanol. I don't see how adding a different type of alcohol, in this case Heet, will accomplish a thing.
As a kid gas stations used to have big displays of Heet. You don't see that anymore now - for a reason.
Also, when was the last time you changed your fuel filter?
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,250 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,250 Likes: 9 |
Does it have a fuel injection or a carb? If the latter, check to see if the carb valve is sticking. (I suppose sitting in the cold for days could do it- but doesn't sound too likely... we had an airline baggage ramp doing that - new carb fixed it.)
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,200
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,200 |
ice in the fuel line. if you can get it in a heated garage for 24 hrs I bet it will start right up.
drover This.. I think your problem is fuel related. Wish you luck.
Randy NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38 |
As I understand it (not an organic chemist) E-10 can absorb a lot of water except at low temps. At lower temps, there can be a phase separation resulting in a water layer.
Apparently the methanol in Heet does not do this.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
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I'm kind of late to the party here but if you're still chasing this problem: I agree with most of these others that it's ice in the fuel, probably the filter. If you can get it into a warm garage, it'll thaw out in a couple of hours. If a warm garage isn't an option, a tarp that could go over the car and reach the ground and then an ELECTRIC space heater under the car near the fuel filter if possible should get it going. A hair dryer to the filter might be faster. If you don't have a tarp, putting hay or straw bales around the car to keep the heat in would work as well.
You said the tank is full, but if there was room for 5gal of room temp gas in the tank, that'd probably thaw it out and allow the HEET that you put in the tank to work.
This brutal cold just makes everything more complicated doesn't it?
Stupidity is expensive If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,188
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,188 |
Low fuel pressure from clogged fuel filter or a fuel pump on it's way out. Sometimes the fuel filter is part of the fuel pump assembly. Fuel pressure gauges are cheap! I just went through this with my Son's Chevy pickup. If you decide to replace the pump/filter yourself research the price of the parts first. The price range is astounding with GM being the highest.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1 |
I just got done reading the codes. P1315. Bad ignition coil, coil wiring, on cylinder 4 or maybe the ECM.
So I switched the ignition coil #4 with #3 and got the same code but for #3. There isn't one in town but it'll be here in the morning.
I'm optimistic that that really is it since the code changed when I swapped them.
But If there is an issue with the fuel as well I'm not sure if that throws a code?
When I googled this code there was a youtube video that came up that showed the exact same symptoms.
Last edited by Ralphie; 01/18/17.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082 |
If it's the fuel, it would probably throw a low fuel pressure code. That's what happens with my Duramax. Not nearly the same thing of course but there you have it.
Stupidity is expensive If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,202 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,202 Likes: 12 |
Ralph,
After you change the bad coil, which now resides @ #3, I'm betting it's going to be flooded as schidte, from all the starting you've been trying to do.
Here's the important part. Once ready to start, hold your foot flat to the mat, on the gas peddle, while turning over till it catches.
This will shut off the fuel supply, until combustion occurs.
Once running, take it & your cell phone for a decent drive. Pick up a can of seafoam while out & add it to your gas. It will help to clean up your injectors 'n' stuff.
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,202 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,202 Likes: 12 |
Fuel issues will not throw a code.
If there is a schrader valve on the fuel rail, fuel pressure can be checked there with the proper gauges.
Does this vehicle have a mass air flow sensor ?
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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