Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Model 29 pump info

I put together some pictures to answer a question on another forum, much of this has already been posted here in the past but I think this puts a few things together that weren't before that might help someone looking at buying one of these and I added more to it here -

ADDED - this information does not apply to the later 29-A & 29-B, they had a different design with a different bolt that lock from the rear.

Here are couple 29 actioned guns that show the differences in the bolts for, and the effects of, Hi-Speed cartridges. I think these pictures will show the changes in the bolts quite well and also show why I strongly suggest only using standard velocity even in 29's with the Hi-Speed bolt.



The change for Hi-Speed gives better support to the base of the cartridge, notice the slot that would be under it on the early bolt. The size of the locking surface did not change and I do not know if there was a change to the hardness of the later receivers or not, but I have seen quite a few receivers with damaged locking surfaces, I do not remember if they were all early (or if I even looked for that after seeing the damage - you can see all that through the ejection port).

Here is an example that I think was repaired at the factory that shows a good locking surface, the repair was a completely new receiver and a warning stamp was added on the barrel, that stamp has sharp edge with little wear and the patina is consistent through it indicating it was added after the gun saw a lot of use. The gun is a Steven's Model 75, marked on the barrel, but the receiver is marked Steven's Model 29-A - but it's a 29 receiver and not a 29-A?? The early bolt that was in it has a later Hi-Speed firing pin which is a drop in change, only the nose is different.



I have mentioned before that I believe the 29 was based on the design used in the Meriden Model 15 which was acquired by Mossberg and from which they made their pump 22's with almost no changes. That design had patents in the names of two of Arthur W. Savage's sons - Arthur J. and Basil, but I think it likely that Arthur W. was the actual designer. Those patent would have expired in 1929, the Savage 29's do not have any patent's stamped on them, there were no active patents on the design and they were not Savage's anyway.

The Meriden and Mossbergs seem to be much more prone to locking surface damage and even the lugs on the bolts often show a lot distortion. Here is a Mossberg version of that dsign, a Model S, that has had someone attempt to repair the locking surfaces by using a punch to shove the metal back in place -



Here are some bolts for comparison, I just got a very early Meriden with a serial number just over 400 that I did not think to include in the picture, it appears to have a slightly different bolt design, among other difference, and seems to be identical to the patent drawing in all features.

Good post for the misc good info thread.

I just spent two days putting a 29B back together and if it wasn't for Gene it never would have happened, he came up with the parts and the info on how to get it up and running again. Thanks Gene!

Great visual lesson Gene, ..again, Thanks! These rifles continue to impress me with their engineering detail. It's neat to see the progression of fine-tuning they did to accommodate higher pressure rounds...across four different manufactures no less!

Imagine how quickly this 22 rimfire action design would be scrapped in today's manufacturing world, for being too finicky , or too expensive.

Kudos to the thoroughness of your research process!! No small investment of time or money here!

Gene do you have a picture of a 29B rear sight made in 1950?

Nicely done Gene. The battered locking surface in the top right picture looks like a rim when compared to the next picture set, top left photo that just shows a flat surface. Am I seeing that right?

Steve in the first picture you mentioned, the locking surfaces have been hammered back by the locking lugs of the bolt, it should be flush with the edge you can see farther forward. Looks like about .030" + of excess head space - I have not measured it, but you don't have to to see it is definitely excessive.

IMO this design had some major flaws that were never addressed very well and one that was never changed and I think contributed to the locking surface problems. It's surprising to me that it was used for guns for as long as it was - 1911~1912 to ~1933~ by Meriden and Mossberg and then 1929 to ~1938~ by Savage. Whether it was designed by Arthur's son's as the patents say, or he designed it and just put the patents in their names to avoid legal issue with Savage Arms, it has to be the second longest produced design by a member of the Savage family.

Mad_Dog, I might have a picture somewhere but if not I will try and get one. (PS I think it's the same as on the 1950 dated 29-A's if that helps )

The one on it looks like one of those cheap ass bent dovetails.

Maybe I'm just used to the more quality sights they used on older guns but this just seems wrong to me.

That's it, here is one on a 1949 29-A. Savage made a lot of their sights using sheetmetal parts from back the early days, but most were better looking than this.

Well thats good news and bad news.

The 29B has the same sight.

The 29A doesn't, time to do some Ebay hunting, can't see those sights going to high though.

Actually, I'll just throw a slot filler in it, it's wearing a #30 tang sight anyways.

Given all the variations on that Savage patent (Meriden)that you've seen and the numbers of same, would you say that it wouldn't have been an issue until the high speed ammo came along?

The design was probably not an issue until Hi-Speed came out, I think it had marginal strength and they wouldn't take Hi-Speed for very long. I wrote a critic of one of the features of this design, but it got very long, very wordy and very boring so after looking at it again I didn't post it - not very readable as it is.

I tried moving the info to the Misc Good Info section but the pictures would not copy. So, I put the info as to how to find it.

Thanks Gene. Great work on your part.

Some pictures of my early Meriden compared with later versions of the design.

Here are links to the patent's I found for this design -
uspto.gov/01027773 Basil Savage
uspto.gov/01108400 Arthur J. Savage
uspto.gov/01146568 George Horne who had patents for improvements on other Meriden firearms and was probably an in-house deisgner.





For a time Meriden actually provided game identification pictures on their guns so that a young lad sent into the woods to get supper would not come home carrying a couple cat's or skunks or muskrats or something - great idea!

...not sure Gene.., those squirrels still might get confused with skunks..

..but, WOW! That Meriden special is, well, Special!

Yea, now that I think about it your probably right, but unless he had a real bad cold and a stuffy nose I would hope he could figure that out by himself...

Always thought the engraved Meridens looked good, tasteful engraving. Or is that an etch?

Steve, it's engraved. From what I have found it was probably done in the shop of William Gough who may have employed several engraves. Meriden was said to contract him for their high end Meridens and their A. J. Aubrey line of shotguns. Gough did work for Savage after Tue.

There was at least one Meriden Model 15 with a different engraving pattern, it had what I think was a shotgun pattern on it - a Grouse on one side and a Woodcock on the other. I saw it at Tulsa and it was prices at $8500, it is far nicer than the pattern on mine but I think the subject more fitting for a shotgun. It went through James Julia Auctions - jamesdjulia/2545-373/ (total with juice was $10,350)
All other engraved Meriden's I have seen are the same pattern as the one pictured above.

There were four of the more common pattern in the Wes Adams collection and Julia sold a couple others of the same pattern at other times - I don't think any were the same gun getting sold again.

ADDED: found some old pictures -

From a Sears & Roebuck catalog (date know, but not remembered right at the moment)-


Another one of mine that still has some blue which tended to flack off in large pieces on the receiver and barrel (the other one missing most of it shows the engraving better) -

Holy Smokes! Those are some pretty plinkin' irons!

...now, you're just showin' off!

Thanks that great response Gene. Those are beautiful rifles you've got there.