So many good bullets out for 7mm right now. Need to find some RL26 to go along with the H1000 and Retumbo. That bullet at 2900-3000 would be interesting.
Just FYI, I don't know exactly how long the 180 ELD is, not the exact twist requirements to stabilize them, but I do know that at 3500 feet elevation my 9" twist 7-08 and 9.5" twist 7WSM will stabilize the 195 Berger Hybrid, which should be a longer bullet and more difficult to stabilize than the 180 ELD. Obviously my 8" twist 7WSM has no problems with the 195, though my 9.5" twist 7-08 won't stabilize them. They keyhole at 100 meters from that particular barrel. I wonder if the 180 ELD will be enough shorter than the 195 Hybrid to stabilize in that 9.5" twist 7-08...
I’m getting over 2800fps with the 162gr ELD-M in my 26in 7-08. I was getting 2750fps with the 162gr A-Max, so I’m happy. The 180gr does look good for the 280AI though.
I just bought a box of the 162 grain ELD-X for my 7mm-08. Looking forward to trying them out. Was concerned about velocity with the heavier bullet.
There was no greater freedom than when I would leave Holiday Park Fish Camp heading my airboat west toward the Big Cypress. Fuel for 4 days, a good machete, an ice chest. No phone, no radio. Just God and me and the Everglades.
I'm betting you are right John. Although a G1 with a bullet like that is absolutely worthless anyways. I'm betting that G1 was measured at 100 yards and its probably accurate at that range.
A G7 of .401 is still a fine number for that projectile.
I can't help but be skeptical too, but the Amax's and ELD's seem to have accurate BC's... no?
If it really flies with a .796 BC that's a pretty big deal. Wonder how fast I could push 'em in a 24" 7 WSM.... I put 2850 fps in Ballistic just for grins; guessing that's about right.
Talked to a tech at Winchester/Olin today about 7 WSM brass. The call was prompted by WW 270 WSM brass showing up on shelves... I was hoping that meant they were running the WSM's. No love. Aargh.
I can't help but be skeptical too, but the Amax's and ELD's seem to have accurate BC's... no?
If it really flies with a .796 BC that's a pretty big deal. Wonder how fast I could push 'em in a 24" 7 WSM.... I put 2850 fps in Ballistic just for grins; guessing that's about right.
Talked to a tech at Winchester/Olin today about 7 WSM brass. The call was prompted by WW 270 WSM brass showing up on shelves... I was hoping that meant they were running the WSM's. No love. Aargh.
By the way- good to see you, John!
You're a f a g g o t.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Maybe. I'm definitely a reformed redliner these days <g>.... I'm not trying for "max", I'm trying for a load that a) is very accurate, first and foremost and b) won't eat my brass too fast.
With the Berger 195's we talked about a while back the max for my rifles was way less than for yours... like 4-5 grains of 7828 less if memory serves.
Regardless, at a G1 of 0.796, 28xx fps would be fine with me.... at 29xx fps I'd be in the bonus big time.
The extra funk in the trunk *might* help them hold together better than the 162's. As you know I've seen a couple asplosions from those on game. Killed the living [bleep] out of the deer, but left me a little skeeved about using them on anything bigger...,
Exciting bullet! As I ponder the future for my (2) 7 WSM's in a brassless world <g>, both of which will need new barrels in the next 500 rounds or so, max, this bullet is definitely a factor to consider.
I shot some 208 Eld-M's in my 32" target 308 yesterday at 1k yards. At 2675 muzzle velocity I had to use the lowest BC Hornady list on their website for that bullets to get hits. Maybe another 400 fps would get them to their claimed BC? Dunno
It appears to be identical to a stretched Amax, seated in the lands .010" it fits fine in the Montana box but not much room to chase the lands, trying them out in my 7WSM this weekend.
Better than expected, each group has a 6/10 spread in charge weight, last three have faint ejector marks. Also note, I don't pick and choose targets, these are shots 2-12 using the ELD, number one confirmed I was on the bull at 195.
The photo should be larger, 'fire is acting wierd and really slow.
Just FYI, I don't know exactly how long the 180 ELD is, not the exact twist requirements to stabilize them, but I do know that at 3500 feet elevation my 9" twist 7-08 and 9.5" twist 7WSM will stabilize the 195 Berger Hybrid, which should be a longer bullet and more difficult to stabilize than the 180 ELD. Obviously my 8" twist 7WSM has no problems with the 195, though my 9.5" twist 7-08 won't stabilize them. They keyhole at 100 meters from that particular barrel. I wonder if the 180 ELD will be enough shorter than the 195 Hybrid to stabilize in that 9.5" twist 7-08...
It seems like manufactures don't publish bullet length with the same discipline with which they publish BCs, so I use an estimator, which came up with a length of 1.620 inches.
As a reference I entered the values for the 7mm, 175 grain ELD-X and got 1.550 inches and the actual length is 1.567 inches, so the actual length of the 180 grain could be a bit longer; maybe 1.637.
I have some inbound to try in my new 7 Sherman Short. Should be able to get em to +/- 2950 based on what I get out of the 180 Bergers. If they group I will stick with them for play and hunting as I have had problems with Bergers both not opening despite running a .04 drill but into each nose and have had a few absolutely grenade with 4+ " exits from my 280 ai and 7rm
Looks like the ELD-X bullets are a bit longer than the ELD Match bullets of the same caliber and weight. At least that's true for 7mm 162 grain with ELD Match being 1.424 inches and ELD-X being 1.478 inches.
Was shooting the 180 ELD out to 700 today. The bc of .797 is holding up to my software. It wasn't one of my better shooting days, but good to pop some primers in a few rigs. 2970 fps still in my long throated 7mm Remington.
Still messing with the 195 EOL bullets too in my rifle. I liked how they performed on game last year and going back and forth on this falls bullet of choice.
Got a thousanty in the Mail today,with a few other things.
Weather has been tough and parcels sparse,the few days I've been home.
Figure to only be but a coupla days,before the stuff I'm expectin' arrives.
Always wanted a Winchester 30-'06 and some Nosler 180NPT's(55 of them!). The Redfield scope and STD mounts are soothin'.....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Got a thousanty in the Mail today,with a few other things.
Weather has been tough and parcels sparse,the few days I've been home.
Figure to only be but a coupla days,before the stuff I'm expectin' arrives.
Always wanted a Winchester 30-'06 and some Nosler 180NPT's(55 of them!). The Redfield scope and STD mounts are soothin'.....................
That barrel nut is slick Larry. I have a McGowen inbound for a RAR and think a nut with the groves for a wrench would fix a bunch of dog knots. A ready to screw on 243AI for 275$ ain't badatall. 7twist 😎
Mallardaditc I want to send you a saum case and have you make me a dumbeee for my smith.
Was shooting the 180 ELD out to 700 today. The bc of .797 is holding up to my software. It wasn't one of my better shooting days, but good to pop some primers in a few rigs. 2970 fps still in my long throated 7mm Remington.
Still messing with the 195 EOL bullets too in my rifle. I liked how they performed on game last year and going back and forth on this falls bullet of choice.
Anyone else aired these out? 180gr at 3000 with .797 is one hell of a payload.
Traded into a rock creek 1-9" already chambered/threaded for 280AI/700..Second time I've owned that barrel and it hasnt been on a receiver yet, so chopping it to 22" and mating it up.
Midway should have the bullets to me by the end of the week, keg of RE26 shortly after.
Shot them again in a variable wind out to 700 at 8500 feet elevation. They are wind cheating monsters and holding .5-.6 moa off a bipod for me. That in a wind that was variable as heck. Loving them. And the RL26 is still impressing too. You are on a good track.
You'd not know which way port was,unless I felt like telling you...and I do not. Congratulations?!?
Bless your heart.
Laughing!..............
David',
Yes another from James. It's forming cases in the high .2's and low .3's,depending upon the boolit. ES is now single digits,after the bore seasoned a smidge.
Settled on mainstay Hornie 105 HPBT's,if only because they'll fit nicely in the Caldwell Grendel ammo boxes,while Smoochin' the newest throat. It's a nice little Hammer.
That be HANDY.
6 Kreedmire next...............
'sco1,
Can't know if they are melting or not...but am HOPING so,if only to keep schit kinda/sorta "fair".(grin)
No thang to kiss Whizzum throats and nestle OEM mag confines,in all (3) of my Montuckys so chambered with the 180's and 2900fps ala '22 is a breeze. Left to right: 162 Melter,162 No-melt and 180 Hope-to-melt. Another 180 seated atta square Kiss for The Retro Fhuqker. MK4 M1 10X and Devil Dog Dots for steering.
It'd be a nice way to fly in a 700 based 28-06 Aye-Eye.
Speakin' of barrel chops,I was more than happy to be getting rid of the 28" spout on my newest 6BR. Took it to 21" with 105's at 2765fps at that more than halfa fhuqking foot of IMPROVEMENT. Gross velocity swing was 120fps...big fhuqking deal.
After it's 200yd zero,the 'Horn's again did a veddy veddy nice job of arranging erector travel,as there was 34 Mils available. Always nice to be zero'd on the last revolution,as it saves alotta zero stops,for other platforms.(grin)
Having 44 Mils of total elevation to work with,do not suck.
Hint................
Fredrica,
Must be VERY "exciting" for you,to slip in a McGowen given your pay "grade". Whatsa 243AI look like...I've never even heard of it. Congratulations?!? Laughing!
Very GOOD call,to have someone else seat boolits for you,as they's purty tricky. Just ask JeffZero...because she cain't even get the fhuqking boxes open. Must be a REALLY High Zoot 'Smith,that cain't even cypher a freebore spec numerically. Hint. Laughing!
You two CLUELESS Kchunts make a great pair!
As an aside,the RAR bane isn't either twist or throating,but rather the absolute dogschit handles and dogschit magazines. Hint.
If only to fuel you STUPID Fhuqks' Imaginations and now you can say you've "seen" a Plug & Play. Look closely. If you get your Google REALLY on,you can say you've "seen" a 147 ELD too. Hint. Laughing!
As to the ShamWow,I've a "hunch",that I've prolly shot that chambering more than a smidge too. Hint.
Just like anything/everything else,I'd focus killer brass,to house killer boolits and gots me yet another "hunch",that it'd be rather easy to arrange a 284-08 Aye-Eye fed via Lapooey Three-Oh-Not-So-Great Virgin false shoulders,so as to yield AICS binderless 180 ELD Smooches. Hint.
Now you can say you've "seen" one of them too,as you madly consult Google for your version of traction. Laughing!
Hopefully another 22 Grendel barrel hits the porch this afternoon.
Bless your heart.
Laughing!................
'338,
They do tend to arrive with authority and slip atmospherics well,especially in these arid Kansas high elevation wheat fields.(grin)
A 7 Kreedmire,would connect altta dots,in a handy/dandy Utility Killing Rifle...............
Jordan,
It's been soooooooooo fhuqking long since I've had anything new...I forgot what it's like.
You fhuqkers have all the fun.....................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
A guy needs to keep an unchambered Bartlein 2B contour with 8 twist in the closet these days. Loving these heavy 7mm bullet options and planning on burning up some at longer ranges this spring/summer.
The Berger 195 is interesting... it was real touchy with pressure in my rifle... however it does shoot well.
The 180 ELD appears to beat it ballistically anyway and at less recoil and costs less too, which is all fine by me!
My initial order of 300 gets here tomorrow. The moment I see 'em shoot well in my heavy 7 WSM- hopefully Monday- I'm ordering a bunch more. Perfect timing as I'm down to a couple boxes of the 162's. I'll just run those in my Kimber.
A guy needs to keep an unchambered Bartlein 2B contour with 8 twist in the closet these days. Loving these heavy 7mm bullet options and planning on burning up some at longer ranges this spring/summer.
Reckon a 2b 9 twist would sling the 180's?????
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” ALDO LEOPOLD
Sugar tits I open boxes with ease, all types. Pun intended!!! And not one has runnoft. Handles and magazines do suck! nothing gets past you do it. Ifn you spent less time seating Bullets well you know. Ps fairly good 243 hulls for .24$ a piece here. They ain't lapua but their 1/4 the price. https://secure.modernarmsinternational.com/category/cases/cases-243-winchester-brass/ The 300 is Norma at a steal not steel. LOL 😂 Did you get to keep the dog. Good talk retard.
A guy needs to keep an unchambered Bartlein 2B contour with 8 twist in the closet these days. Loving these heavy 7mm bullet options and planning on burning up some at longer ranges this spring/summer.
Reckon a 2b 9 twist would sling the 180's?????
A 9 twist at 4,000 feet elevation and above shoots 180 scenars real well. Can't speak to lower elevations or the ELD in that one. My 8.5 twist has worked great with them all, but again I aways shoot at 4,000 or higher. If you haven't ordered it yet, I'd go for more twist but 9 should do fine.
Just missed my box from Midway... the new USPS driver is scared of my driveway apparently, haha... looks like I have to wait until Monday before I can get started with 'em.
A guy needs to keep an unchambered Bartlein 2B contour with 8 twist in the closet these days. Loving these heavy 7mm bullet options and planning on burning up some at longer ranges this spring/summer.
Reckon a 2b 9 twist would sling the 180's?????
A 9 twist at 4,000 feet elevation and above shoots 180 scenars real well. Can't speak to lower elevations or the ELD in that one. My 8.5 twist has worked great with them all, but again I aways shoot at 4,000 or higher. If you haven't ordered it yet, I'd go for more twist but 9 should do fine.
thx Kurt I've got the 9 twist in the safe already...
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” ALDO LEOPOLD
No pressure signs @ 64 7828. Accuracy is phenomenal- on par with the 162's. Sub-1/2" from my ham fists. One more 100-yard sesh to find WTF pressure is, and set my Harris zero, then it's off to the races.
More data FWIW. Took my Chrony up this time. I ran up to 65 grns 7828 today. I topped out near 2900 fps from my 24" 7 WSM. Being as how I'm all grown up an shït <grin> and don't chase velocity anymore I'm gonna run 63.5 grns @ 2850 fps.
Accuracy is phenomenal. Fully caffeinated, from prone w/Harris and my trusty Crown Royal lentil bag:
That was with 64 grains. Below is @ 63.5, with my first three shots of the day (DAMN YOU, errant flyer!) circled, with the last 3 above it. The last 3 were after a click "up" on the ol' Nightforce NXS.
Given that I'm a crappy rifleman as we all know, I'd say the bullet itself must be doing wondrous things. I've now got (700) on hand and will be ordering more.
LR testing starts tomorrow hopefully. Gotta finish some parts first. Fuggin work messing with my play time.
Shot these at distance today. The recipe was 2850 fps (via my crappy Shooting Chrony) and a Nightforce 5.5-22 NXS and I started by plugging in a G1 of 0.796 in Ballistic.
At 900 yards I had to jigger the software to 2900 fps to match reality... so either the BC is actually higher than .796, or my NF erector is a bit off, or my rangefinder is off, or my Chrony is off, or there was a subtle updraft I couldn't perceive. Or some combination of those variables.
But the upshot (see what I did there?) is that the .796 BC held up in spades! If anything it's a bit better.
You're gonna chase your tail using g1 that far and beyond. ...
Originally Posted by BrentD
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
Wouldn't be alone if I could get my hands on some!!
Thanks for the feedback. Obliged.
Midway just ran out of the seconds at $13.68/100. I bought 700. I'll probably eventually wish I'd bought 2700 or 3700 <grin> but I'm on the brink of finishing my 6.5 SAUM build (just waiting on the die set from GAP and an order of small parts- bolt stop, sear pin, the other trigger group mounting pin, etc) from Brownells... ).... so I'm shifting gears a bit... but $13.68/100 was ridiculous.
Actually one of my Midway buys was as $12-something. I swear, Midway watches you via cookies and if you seem to be teetering they'll float a lower still price at ya... briefly... .
Good point High Country. This was just a first trip. I'll mess with that and report back. I tried to shoot them again yesterday but my LR spot was infested by beer drinking yayhoos and I won't go near people mixing alcohol and guns.
Shot these at distance today. The recipe was 2850 fps (via my crappy Shooting Chrony) and a Nightforce 5.5-22 NXS and I started by plugging in a G1 of 0.796 in Ballistic.
At 900 yards I had to jigger the software to 2900 fps to match reality... so either the BC is actually higher than .796, or my NF erector is a bit off, or my rangefinder is off, or my Chrony is off, or there was a subtle updraft I couldn't perceive. Or some combination of those variables.
But the upshot (see what I did there?) is that the .796 BC held up in spades! If anything it's a bit better.
I think I'm in love.....
.....WOW! Thanks for sharing this, will be trying some in the 7STW when its done!
OK tried RL 26 in my LH Ruger,7 MM Rem Mag, 24" MK 2 , 180 GR Hornady ELD seconds from Midway. Shot 1 round each for velocity, and 3 for inital group. RP case, CCI Mag primer, seated to mag length.
Accurate and no signs of bullet instability at 50 foot elevation.
66 GR RL 26, 3 @ 1.7" 2888 FPS
66.5 GR RL 26 3 @ 1.3 2897 FPS
67 Gr RL 26 2 @ .20" 3 @ 1.2 pulled one shot 2938 FPS
1 shot of 67.5 GR RL 26 2946 FPS
1 shot of 68 GR RL 26 3005 FPS
RL 26 continues to impress me. No excess pressure signs.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
Shot the 7 Rem Mag again today with 180 GR Hornady and 67 GR of RL 26 RP Case and CCI 250 primer seated to mag length. 200 Yards 3 @ .56 ". Think I have found a load that will work.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
FINALLY got my hands on some of these and tested them out today for the first time. Took some measurements with this lot of bullets, and found the bullet OAL to be 1.541" with a BTO length of 0.659".Loaded up some cases with various charges of 7828ssc to find pressure, seated bullets to kiss lands, and let her rip. The last charge weight ended up being 2979 fps, which QL estimates to be 62.5k psi- a little under SAAMI max. I think I'm onto something...
Jordan that is what I have seen with RL 26 also lots of difference in group size then the magic happens. Interesting both of our best loads were 67 gr in my 7 Rem Mag and your 7 WSM.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
Yeah, 67gr seems to be it. I kind of wondered if that 67gr group would have been a one-holer if I had been shooting off a proper rest instead of using a Wiebad Pump Pillow and a Tab rear bag. Hopefully the load proves to be one-hole worthy with continued use.
Speaking of drops, I meant to say that I had a handful of 66.5gr loads left after testing charge weights, so I punched the data into my ballistic app and sent the remaining rounds at the 400 and 500 meter plates. The scope adjustment increments have been previously verified many times, and come ups matched the published BC value perfectly.
I need to chrono again as 3010 fps is what it is taking to make JBM line up at my repeatedly tested 500 and 700 yard drops. Not going to worry about it much. Printing out drop chart and taping to stock. Another few months of shooting and time to test the 180s on some flesh. Taking 3.3 mil to 700 and 2.0 mil to 500 out of my rifle at 5300 feet of elevation.
180 ELD's over 68gr of R26 is getting me 3060fps with single digits sd's and .250" 5rd groups. Rifle is a GAP 7 WSM with 26" barrel fed by Badger DBM and modified A.I mags
Gol dangit guys. You've kicked sand in my loads face in terms of velocity. That's way less 7828 than I'm using. I was seeing the velocity plateau (I thought) on my Chrony so I stopped short of overt pressure signs. Might revisit that... but I've got a coveted antelope hunt in a couple months and I've got good dope to 1000 yards with my load... and July and August suck around here for shooting... might have to just live with my measly pipsqueek load.
Way accurate though and I'm all-in on this bullet in my heavy 7 WSM. Can't wait to try it on meat. Anybody hear of anyone shooting hogs or whatnot with it?
Loaded up more of these with R26 and found a can of 7828 so loaded from 63.5-65gr to see what I see. Seems like all the data on 7828 tops out at 64, not sure I am brave enough to go up to the 67gr that Jordan is running but we will see.
What data are you looking at? I can't find any data with 7828 and the 180ELD, so I default to QL and my chrono, and gauge accordingly. Zero pressure signs so far, easy extraction, wicked accuracy. Yesterday my Kimber 7WSM was putting 5 shots into sub-MOA at 66gr, and my heavy 7WSM was shooting them into half-MOA or less at 67gr. Tried a new lot of 7828ssc yesterday, and gained 30 fps- not a lot of variation there.
I compared book data for the 180 Berger with 7828 as well as other guys attempts with the 180 bergers and eld's on line. My can was a sealed lb of old vintage 7828 in the old metal rectangular cans. If it shows better accuracy at close to the 3000 fps I'm getting with R26 I will buy a newer can. I have never played with Quickload so will be relying on brass signs, bolt lift and my chronograph for clues of how hard to push it.
If the 3060 fps with r26 I saw before holds up and accuracy stays good then the 7828 loads will be all for play. I have nothing else really to run the 7828 in so it's mostly a curiosity thing for now.
As it is I am sitting on about 22 more lbs of R26 so I am good for a while or atleast for this barrel. 😉
I compared book data for the 180 Berger with 7828 as well as other guys attempts with the 180 bergers and eld's on line. My can was a sealed lb of old vintage 7828 in the old metal rectangular cans. If it shows better accuracy at close to the 3000 fps I'm getting with R26 I will buy a newer can. I have never played with Quickload so will be relying on brass signs, bolt lift and my chronograph for clues of how hard to push it.
If the 3060 fps with r26 I saw before holds up and accuracy stays good then the 7828 loads will be all for play. I have nothing else really to run the 7828 in so it's mostly a curiosity thing for now.
As it is I am sitting on about 22 more lbs of R26 so I am good for a while or atleast for this barrel. 😉
Crap man, 22lbs...share the wealth!
That's only good for about...2300 rounds of 7WSM, so about 1-2 barrels worth
The rifle is a GAP 7wsm, surgeon action with integral 20moa rail and integral recoil lug, Bartlein 1:9 26" mtu, McMillan A5, Timney 510, Kahles k624i. To say it is accurate seems to be an understatement. I have yet to try any load with the 180 eld-m or 162 Amax that went over 3/4" even with my magnetospeed attached. Sans magnetospeed everything with the 180 eld-m's and 7828 or R26 has gone sub 1/2" or better
Loaded an old virgin can is 7828 I found so loaded from 63-65gr. No pressure whatsoever. 65gr shot into .352". Average velocity of 2975 with sd of 7.4.
R26 again stole the show. I loaded 65-68 gr and only at 68 did I find the slightest ejector mark but I had to really look for it. The 68gr averaged 3080fps with sd of 7.2 and .329" group.
Going to back it down to 66gr as that was averaging 3020 fps, sd of 4.8 and several groups hovering around the .2 arena and the bolt still cycles like the glass. The group shown goes .123"
Everything was loaded to an oal of 2.94" to feed from my accurate mags. Jump for the 180 eld-m is exactly .035 in my gun. Nothing went over 3/4" even with the magnetospeed hooked up and without it was sub 1/2". I may play with seating on the 66gr load but clearly the weak link is me for groups. I don't see any reason to try to push the gun over 3k with that bullet and it's accuracy as more speed opened them up.
Last edited by MallardAddict; 06/26/17. Reason: Added pictures
I'm getting 2990 fps with 67gr of this new lot of 7828ssc, so slightly faster than your 65gr load, but it's worth noting that I'm shooting moly-coated bullets. That's good for a 1-2gr difference right there.
Man I wish I could get my hands on some R26. The US distributors are always forgetting us little guys to the North
Jordan, across the board I have found a free 150-250fps with r26 over my old loads in several rifles. It seems to burn clean and be pretty stable. My initial attempts were at 90 degrees, 58 degrees today and I lost a whopping 9 fps, seems stable to me this far.
As I mentioned yesterday my 7828 is the old rectangular can. If I remember right I bought it when I first got my Ruger #1 7mm stw so it is close to 20 years old. I'm guessing the current formulation isn't the same as what I have in hand. Once I burn this can I will buy a new can of 7828 ssc if only to see what happens.
I too got in on the midway eld-m seconds to the tune of 3000 so I got some to play with anyways 😎.
If the next range trip shows similar groups for the 66gr R26 that may just seal the deal.
Jeff, Your results with 65gr of 7828 are only about 75 fps behind my results with same and I have a 26" barrel which jives with the standard thought of 35-50 fps per inch of barrel. Also not sure it matters but my can of 7828 is about 20 years old, but I bought a lb of 7828ssc yesterday and plan to try it again tommorow working from 64gr -67gr in 1/2gr increments. Will also reshoot r26 from 66-68 in 1/2gr increments.
In my barrel both R26 and 7828 can get 3k fps without shcitt for pressure signs and great accuracy so now I'm just playing to play.
Ran up to 66.5 of 7828ssc today with sub 3/8" groups and 3030fps with sd of 1.2. R26 at 66.5 shot into .2 at 3065fps with sd of 3.1. Clearly my rifle isn't picky at all as poi for both R26 and 7828 is less then .2 mils.
In both R26 and 7828 I saw 30-40fps per grain of powder. I'm thinking I am done screwing with it and will use R26 as I have plenty
Had 10 rds of various loads left over that went into .53 (2@ 65.5, 266, 1@ 66.5 of 7828, 266, 1@ 66.5, 2@ 67 of R26) velocity ranged from 2970-3065fps.
Lost my good sense and sent my smith a 28 reamer this afternoon I'm next on the list and was going 7mmRM. But a 180 ELD at 3100+ is a ballistics laser. Should be more fun than my edge in the wind.
Lost my good sense and sent my smith a 28 reamer this afternoon I'm next on the list and was going 7mmRM. But a 180 ELD at 3100+ is a ballistics laser. Should be more fun than my edge in the wind.
I think you did the right thing!
Not relevant to the ELD 180, but the guy in the link below is getting over 3100 with the 195 VLD
Steens. I know there's "better" antelope tags in Oregon, but I know Steens well, and I love being there. Could be HOT in August though.
Also got a High Cascade deer tag as a 2nd choice so that's going to be a fun backpack adventure if nothing else.
Planning on using the 6.5 SAUM for both... or if I'm really setting up to reach out, my heavy 7 WSM with the 180 ELD's and a big NF scope should suffice.
I shot the 180 tonight in my 7 rem ridgeline with RL 26 68gr at 2965fps and no pressure yet and the bullet was stabilized in my 1-9 twist at 2400 ft elevation. They sure wack steel hard at 600 yards. I used the advertised BC and it was alright but how does it have higher bc then the 195 vld ,by quite a bit ? I shoot the 162 eldx and compared the two side by side along with the 180 vld and I just don't see 0.797 bc out of the but I'm no balistcian.
Hey guys Im coming in late on this conversation, But I have a question. I have just recently put together a 7mm Rem Mag. 30" 1-8" twist, I am currently shooting 7828ssc and the 180gr ELD but reading this post, I think I need to look at RL26. I have RL25, it is my understanding that RL26 is the temp stable version of RL25? Is that correct? Are they interchangeable?
Jordan that is what I have seen with RL 26 also lots of difference in group size then the magic happens. Interesting both of our best loads were 67 gr in my 7 Rem Mag and your 7 WSM.
Ironically my buddy's load in his 7 WSM was RL-26 @ 67.5 and 3115 fps with the 175 eldx....works to a mile atleast. I wonder if 67 would be the magic number in his for 180s.
Jordan that is what I have seen with RL 26 also lots of difference in group size then the magic happens. Interesting both of our best loads were 67 gr in my 7 Rem Mag and your 7 WSM.
Ironically my buddy's load in his 7 WSM was RL-26 @ 67.5 and 3115 fps with the 175 eldx....works to a mile atleast. I wonder if 67 would be the magic number in his for 180s.
My 7 WSM ran 67 of R26 at 3075 fps with 5/8" groups. Dropping to 66 gr in once fired brass and I am at 3040fps average, sd's of 2.1-3.6 the last 3 times out and groups hovering in the .3's with several 5 rd groups doing better.
Bump so MA can give us some terminal performance details from his bruin.
JeffO, not my bear just my rifle used to take it. Not much to tell, 578yds quartering fairly well away. Bullet went in about 4-5" back from onside shoulder crease taking out that lung, took about 1 1/2" off the bottom of the heart, put a big hole in the front of the offside lung and came out square in the front shoulder/ neck junction of the off side shoulder. Bullet hit a rib going in took out the sternum going out. Exit was about 1" diameter chest cavity was full of soup but minimal meat loss at the bully holes.
I will be using it some more for deer as we predominately hunt wide open wheat stubble fields. I am undecided on using it for elk as I'm not even sure where I am going to hunt them yet.
So far I am very happy with the 180's just as I have been with the 208 eld-m and 212 ELD-X.
Also going to run the 108 in my new 6 predator (6mm grendel)
Joining in late hear fellas, but good to see some great info.
Curious to see if any one has shot the 180 ELD-M and 195 EOL side by side?
I spent a better part of hour talking with a bullet guru at Hornady and he was rather adamant the 180 is strictly a target bullet and not a big game bullet.
I liked the 195 performance on game last year. This year the 180 is getting its chance. Will decide which way to roll after some first hand experiences. Have a couple of the 180s so hoping I like them.
Joining in late hear fellas, but good to see some great info.
Curious to see if any one has shot the 180 ELD-M and 195 EOL side by side?
I spent a better part of hour talking with a bullet guru at Hornady and he was rather adamant the 180 is strictly a target bullet and not a big game bullet.
But I will let the dead animals do the talkin!
They gonna talk the party line, for sure. It's not too unlike a drug rep pimping a new product. They get in deep doodoo if they get off the reservation, probably fired.
Scenars are target bullets. Check our Pat (Scenarshooter)'s portfolio of dead critters. The Bergers were target bullets until people started seeing how well they whacked animals.
I've seen it posted that the 6.5mm 147 ELD-M has better terminal performance then the 143 EDL-X. Not sure if that thinking can be extrapolated over into the 7mm class, but wouldn't want to bet against it.
I just sent Hornady an email asking for a more specific explanation about the m's on game. The design may be a little a different between the two, but I suspect a good bit of marketing is involved... thinking match shooters and hunters won't want bullets that aren't 'optimized' for their specific purposes. Guessing this fall we'll see some real world results.
From Hornady customer service. A little more equivocal than whoever WDEA spoke with.
"Thank you for writing in to us. The main difference between the ELD-Match and ELD-X is that the ELD-Match has a thin jacket and no interlocking ring to hold the jacket to the lead core. The ELD-X has the thicker jacket and the interlocking ring on the inside. We don’t really test the ELD-Match bullets terminally, but the fear is over-expansion. There are some that use these bullets for hunting and are happy with their results as there has been many that used the A-Max (the ELD-Match predecessor).
My factory 700 in 7mm Rem Mag seems to stabilize the 180 ELD just fine at 2850+ and 5000' asl.
Going to go out and shoot them out to 600 or so this weekend, then we'll see about crashing one into a bull later this month.... and a 4th season Muley buck come Mid-November.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
180 ELD-M’s will be in the Mag if my GA Precison 7 WSM on opening day a little over a week from today. Never had an issue with the Amax so I am betting these will be fine.
Lord knows they shoot great at 3025fps from my GAP
180 ELD-M’s will be in the Mag if my GA Precison 7 WSM on opening day a little over a week from today. Never had an issue with the Amax so I am betting these will be fine.
Lord knows they shoot great at 3025fps from my GAP
5@ 200 yds in a decent wind:
That's just ridiculous. Nice shooting!
Based on a bunch of experience with the 162AM on game, I'm betting that this heavier-for-caliber "A-Max" will do at least as well...
I am running 66gr if R26 with the 180 M’s in my 7 wsm. 67 had no issues but always seemed to drop one out of the group just a bit. 3060fps with single digit sd’s from my 26” barrel.
67 gr group at 200:
Can’t cuss either load but didn’t see a need to beat the gun harder for 40fps and a little less group.
I'm at 65.5 grains RL26 in the 26" 7 Rem Mag for 2850.... and it's breathing easy. I'm sure I could milk another 100fps out of it.... and I still might.... but it's shooting well and the recoils is very manageable.... so I may just leave it.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
Shot five shot groups and it opened up on either side of 66.5 (.62 MOA at 195), 67.1 was lively but I am not surprised, it was 55 last February and 75 this morning. I am loading more and headed back out in the morning to get velocity and it's off to Houston in a week to play at 600.
Posting from deer camp and will try to put up pics later. Shot a 225 pound mule deer at 380 yards with a 180. Slight quartering shot. Bullet entered 3" behind shoulder and did not reach opposite shoulder. Entrance wound about 3" diameter after hitting a rib. Did not inspire any confidence but did kill it immediately. Will try one more on another buck later this year but so far I'd be very nervous using on elk or a deer shoulder.
Posting from deer camp and will try to put up pics later. Shot a 225 pound mule deer at 380 yards with a 180. Slight quartering shot. Bullet entered 3" behind shoulder and did not reach opposite shoulder. Entrance wound about 3" diameter after hitting a rib. Did not inspire any confidence but did kill it immediately. Will try one more on another buck later this year but so far I'd be very nervous using on elk or a deer shoulder.
Thanks for the info. Kind of what I thought. I'll stick with the ELDX, personally....
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Posting from deer camp and will try to put up pics later. Shot a 225 pound mule deer at 380 yards with a 180. Slight quartering shot. Bullet entered 3" behind shoulder and did not reach opposite shoulder. Entrance wound about 3" diameter after hitting a rib. Did not inspire any confidence but did kill it immediately. Will try one more on another buck later this year but so far I'd be very nervous using on elk or a deer shoulder.
Great intel. You’re right, if it won’t transit a deer, it might be a little shaky on elk.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 30338
Posting from deer camp and will try to put up pics later. Shot a 225 pound mule deer at 380 yards with a 180. Slight quartering shot. Bullet entered 3" behind shoulder and did not reach opposite shoulder. Entrance wound about 3" diameter after hitting a rib. Did not inspire any confidence but did kill it immediately. Will try one more on another buck later this year but so far I'd be very nervous using on elk or a deer shoulder.
Thanks for the info. Kind of what I thought. I'll stick with the ELDX, personally....
From the couple I’ve seen filed in half I’m not sure what the difference is between the M and X. Neither of them are deep penetrators in the water jugs. Their “ring” doesn’t hold onto much..
That's exactly the performance that turned me off to the Amax. I saw a 162 not go through a deer, at about 2800fps impact, on a slight quartering away shot.
I've got a second season bull tag... was planning on the 180... but I've still got some 160 Accubonds loaded up. Maybe I'll save the 180s for the buck tag in November.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
That's exactly the performance that turned me off to the Amax. I saw a 162 not go through a deer, at about 2800fps impact, on a slight quartering away shot.
I've got a second season bull tag... was planning on the 180... but I've still got some 160 Accubonds loaded up. Maybe I'll save the 180s for the buck tag in November.
The 160 ABs don’t have quite the BC but man are they pile drivers on elk. I’ve used and continue to try other stuff but I haven’t found anything that works better at the 0-600 yard hunting ranges I typically shoot. They might be my favorite 7mm bullet besides the 175 BBCs.
That's the entrance wound. Not a single bullet fragment made it to the opposite shoulder. I'd use on a deer but not happily after this. Looks like one of my other rigs will get the call for elk this fall.
Impact range was 380 yards. Started out around 3040 fps. I'll trade 2 full boxes of Hornady 180 ELD-M seconds for a box or even a partial box of 175 ELD-X. Let me know if anyone is interested.
30338’s results have my scratching my head. So far I have only seen 2 animals killed with the 180 ELD-M’s at 3025fps launch. Both were bears 1 at 578 and 1 at 462. Both hit ribs and exited with classic 1 1/2” exit wounds. I have been happy as hell with my results but 30-338’s certainly is cause for concern.
I really wanted that bullet to work too. Never seen one go to pieces that fast on a rib and have shot a few ribs over the years. Others have had similar happen with bergers, but I never have. Maybe it was just a fluke. I know there are 1000 for sale in the classifieds for a great price though.....
I butched a Dall sheep that a gunwriter shot with a 300 Win mag and the new Hornady ammo with the ELD-X this past August. I think they were 180s. The shoulder was 100% ruined. Bullet disintegrated in the shoulder. I wasn't impressed with it myself. It did kill the ram. Maybe they are better at LONG range where they have slowed way down.
Last edited by dennisinaz; 10/09/17.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
I have 3000 of these things 😐. Going off what I've seen out of A-Max's, I never really thought they'd be replacing the 195 bergers for hunting.. would have been better if they could have tho.
So far my rifle has accounted for 2 long range bucks and both bullets recovered. Mine at 784 broadside was poking out of the skin on the far side. Caught a rib going in and probably retained 70% of its weight. Other buck was 652 impacted the spine going straight away and was found in the brisket probably retained 55-60%. On both deer the lungs were soup and bullet performance was great. Both were big healthy mule deer pushing 300 #’s and obviously shot at fair range. Hopefully we will get to try one under 300yds in the next day or so.
Shot an antelope with them at 408 yards. 2930 mv. It was quartering away slightly. I hit it back a little. Missed bone completely and never found any of the bullet lodged into the offside anywhere inside the cavity. It was like the bullet completely disintegrated.
Another got shot with that gun at 218 yards. It hit front shoulder going in and had a 2" or so exit out the offside shoulder.
A buddy buddy used the 147 ELD m on a couple and he had one that exited and one that dissapeared like I did with the 180's.
For those interested, yesterday I tested 6 of these in dry news print. Impact was roughly 2450 fps (7-08), all bullets penetrated 7.5-8.5 inches and retained 100-120 grains with the cores still lightly attached to the jackets. For a comparison I shot a Hndy 6.5 160gr RN into the same medium at 2300ish. It penetrated 9.5 inches and shed its core fully. The 180’s created a much larger channel. These were the blems.
Reading this thread made me wonder about the blems a little so I figured I would give them a test before using them on game. I was mainly looking for consistency and a relative amount of integrity. None blew up so that gives me the warm fuzzies. YMMV
Hell...Reloading/Shooting are still my favorite things to do,besides play in the box the kids came in.................
Shot a mature whitetail last night at 650 yards. Quartering to me. Bullet went in left shoulder and stopped in far side ribs. Good penetration and was nicely mushroomed. That's long for me but it way better than the 380 yard shot earlier. Going to load the 195 bergers up for next fall but may gun the 6.5 lapua mostly next fall.
A test of one, but so far very impressed. 162gr ELD-M, 2400fps impact velocity. Limited blood shot area, good exit hole, liquified lungs, DRT result. More testing to follow.
This happened. I got to my stand late. Sat for about 30 seconds. I didn't know how big he was until I got up to him. 155lbs field dressed. 7-08, 180gr eld @2525fps...40 yards. You're looking at the exit wound in the picture. Good damage, both lungs and the plumbing over the heart. he went about 20 yards after the shot. Interestingly the entrance hole was caliber sized.
Hell...Reloading/Shooting are still my favorite things to do,besides play in the box the kids came in.................
This happened. I got to my stand late. Sat for about 30 seconds. I didn't know how big he was until I got up to him. 155lbs field dressed. 7-08, 180gr eld @2525fps...40 yards. You're looking at the exit wound in the picture. Good damage, both lungs and the plumbing over the heart. he went about 20 yards after the shot. Interestingly the entrance hole was caliber sized.
Nice! Those heavy for caliber bullets are moderate speed are a great idea. Looks like you have a custom barrel on that Rem 700........
Lot of pages here but looking back on my shots from last year. Impact velocity of around 2600 and things go weird with it. Impact velocity of 2350 and it performed really nicely. Looks like 117lbs performance at 2525 was great. Be interesting to see if there are any other results from folks in that 2500 fps and under range.
Heavy 7mm bullets are becoming in vogue again by tbe looks of it. The old timers 40 years ago, used them a lot and always reported positively.
Rel 26 and 175gn Partitions can step very close to the turf usually reserved for the .300's so I am sure all reports for the 180gn ELD will generate interest. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
Heavy 7mm bullets are becoming in vogue again by tbe looks of it. The old timers 40 years ago, used them a lot and always reported positively.
Rel 26 and 175gn Partitions can step very close to the turf usually reserved for the .300's so I am sure all reports for the 180gn ELD will generate interest. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
Lot of pages here but looking back on my shots from last year. Impact velocity of around 2600 and things go weird with it. Impact velocity of 2350 and it performed really nicely. Looks like 117lbs performance at 2525 was great. Be interesting to see if there are any other results from folks in that 2500 fps and under range.
I was thinking the same thing, about your shots. I know for me, I’d be pretty wary of stuff one into a front leg joint on a bull Elk out of my Mashburn.
Nice! Those heavy for caliber bullets are moderate speed are a great idea. Looks like you have a custom barrel on that Rem 700........
It’s actually a 700 take off on a 722 action. Modified bdl stock with the Magpul AI bottom.
Originally Posted by 30338
Stud of a whitetail there. Glad you weren't 30 seconds later.
I’ve thought that. Where I walked in was only about 20 yards from where he was shot. As I passed by that spot I thought I heard something but decided to keep going and just get in my stand. He might have spooked if I had stopped.
Hell...Reloading/Shooting are still my favorite things to do,besides play in the box the kids came in.................
I put a rifle together basically for this bullet, finally shot it today for velocity and figured I'd share. Shilen DGR action (thanks Hondo64), which is Rem 700 footprint that takes Savage small shank barrels with the nutter. Floaty bolt head, extractor is like an M16 I think, it's on a lug.... Got 26" SS heavy sporter 1 in 8" 7MM Remington Magnum barrel from Criterion via NSS, along with the NSS nut. They reportedly throat with .115" freebore, easy to reach lands at 2.727" BTO, about 3.455 COL, and is just fine in all regards to my eye for capacity, mag fit, etc .... Has Shilen 3/8" pinned lug and their 20MOA pinned aluminum rail. Sits in a Grayboe Outlander stock (thanks Rick) and wears a SWFA 3-9MQ in Warne Mtn Tech low rings. Timney Calvin Elite two-stage trigger (thanks Jordon), PTG aluminum Obermeyer style bottom metal. Remy box, spring and milled follower. Lug bedded in Devcon. Floated the nut onward. Torqued like a farmer. All went together with pleasant precision.
I have some inbound to try in my new 7 Sherman Short. Should be able to get em to +/- 2950 based on what I get out of the 180 Bergers. If they group I will stick with them for play and hunting as I have had problems with Bergers both not opening despite running a .04 drill but into each nose and have had a few absolutely grenade with 4+ " exits from my 280 ai and 7rm
Hybrids ?
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
I put a rifle together basically for this bullet, finally shot it today for velocity and figured I'd share. Shilen DGR action (thanks Hondo64), which is Rem 700 footprint that takes Savage small shank barrels with the nutter. Floaty bolt head, extractor is like an M16 I think, it's on a lug.... Got 26" SS heavy sporter 1 in 8" 7MM Remington Magnum barrel from Criterion via NSS, along with the NSS nut. They reportedly throat with .115" freebore, easy to reach lands at 2.727" BTO, about 3.455 COL, and is just fine in all regards to my eye for capacity, mag fit, etc .... Has Shilen 3/8" pinned lug and their 20MOA pinned aluminum rail. Sits in a Grayboe Outlander stock (thanks Rick) and wears a SWFA 3-9MQ in Warne Mtn Tech low rings. Timney Calvin Elite two-stage trigger (thanks Jordon), PTG aluminum Obermeyer style bottom metal. Remy box, spring and milled follower. Lug bedded in Devcon. Floated the nut onward. Torqued like a farmer. All went together with pleasant precision.
Work in progress. So far no special beauty treatments. Just SS and black. It's a bit funny. I have always disliked the look of fluted bolts but this one has sorta changed that - maybe... Might leave as is or have been considering a GAPish camo, OD Green or going look at me orange and black... I can't believe how much my cheap-ass has into it. LOL I like it. Figuring it's the windy day rifle.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
IMO this rifle out-shot me yesterday, as the wind increased it got better. Adjusted scope throughout so can't make a composite.... Looks promising and love the fit and function.
67.0 RL-26, just over 2900fps seems to be a sweet spot. Just going to retry the 67.0 with .030" (BTO 2.697") jump next time and see what happens. 67.5 is a bit warm - maybe. Appreciate all the posters on this thread.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Looking great! I hope I can do my part and get them stacked up like that too.
I have 300 Hornady brass for this rifle and have found it to be very consistent. I prepped the hell out of it, loaded rounds have .001"-.0015" runout. No rejects or flaws out of the first hundred pieces.
26" barrel here. I'll get more velocity notes eventually.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
My 7WSM sent a 180 ELD through this bull moose at 30 meters on the weekend. 2965 fps launch. Bullet entered brisket on a frontal shot, demolished lungs, shed a little weight which was found as shrapnel, and exited rear of offside ribcage, for about 3-3.5’ of penetration. I'm impressed.
My 7WSM sent a 180 ELD through this bull moose at 30 meters on the weekend. 2965 fps launch. Bullet entered brisket on a frontal shot, demolished lungs, shed a little weight which was found as shrapnel, and exited rear of offside ribcage, for about 3-3.5" of penetration. I'm impressed.
Congratulations Jordan!
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Not to be outdone by Jordan. (LOL) Hundred yardish impact velocity at about 2750-2800. Blew through ribs slight quartering away to the right, souped the lungs, and bloodshot up between body and both front legs heavily. Heart had a triangular hole about a cm wide? One tiny bullet fragment in offside hide. This little alfalfa eating 1x2 guy was limping along at the the wrong time and place with an archery wound to hind calf (right) and been walking with that hoof upturned for awhile. Glad to have put him down. First whitetail BTW. We're still grinning. Actually always grinning looking at the ridiculous G7.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Shot a whitetail doe tonight, close like 80 yards. Carnage as expected. Two ribs in and two out busted up, souped one lung, no big exit hole in the hide, just about dime size. Not the intent with this rifle, just close ones appeared where long shots are more likely, or so I was thinking. Love the rifle previously mentioned. Really dig the Timney Calvin Elite two-stage trigger.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Well. Found this. Small whitetail pictured above, slight angle away, 125ish yards, about 2800fps impact. Ribs, two busted both in and out and the bullet stopped next to bone on offside leg. DRT but obviously not ideal maybe. Firsts not seconds. So - is that awesome 500 yard 10" drift at 90 degree 10 MPH wind figure worth it, or?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
IMO, yes it’s worth it. You just have to be slightly specific about shot placement. The ELD/AM/VLD behaves differently than a piledriving TSX, and should be treated accordingly.
Which is why I carry a mag full of the TTSX in the rifle for jump/quick close shots, with a few wind-cheaters handy for long shots that may present themselves
The 30 meter 180ELD on moose was more for R&D than matching the bullet to the shot.
Thanks for the kind words fellas. Calling that guy in was pretty fun. Always a rush when 1500 lbs of muscle is at 30m, with a desire to either make you a lady moose, or smash you into the ground. I’m not sure which would be worse.
Thanks for the kind words fellas. Calling that guy in was pretty fun. Always a rush when 1500 lbs of muscle is at 30m, with a desire to either make you a lady moose, or smash you into the ground. I’m not sure which would be worse.
Pretty sure the smashing. LOL
It made it through the body both sides then got caught in the inside of the offside leg.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Not to be outdone by Jordan. (LOL) Hundred yardish impact velocity at about 2750-2800. Blew through ribs slight quartering away to the right, souped the lungs, and bloodshot up between body and both front legs heavily. Heart had a triangular hole about a cm wide? One tiny bullet fragment in offside hide. This little alfalfa eating 1x2 guy was limping along at the the wrong time and place with an archery wound to hind calf (right) and been walking with that hoof upturned for awhile. Glad to have put him down. First whitetail BTW. We're still grinning. Actually always grinning looking at the ridiculous G7.
Boomer, you look much younger than I had pictured you.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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66, 1@ 66.5 of 7828, 2![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/nxnIf18.jpg)
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