Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Reloading for the 300 Savage.. Tips?

Hi all-
This reloading virgin has finally bought his first reloading setup, a Lee Loader. First off, I already posted this in the reloading forum, I just thought I might give it a try in here in case anyone has any Savage 99-specific tips. I will only be loading for the .300 Savage to start off, so anyone with experience loading for this caliber, please share your insight. The two rifles I will be loading for are a Remington 722 and a Savage 99E. I am interested in using such bullets as the original Winchester Silvertip, Remington Bronze-Point, and Nosler Partitions. I have 440 pieces of once-fired brass from my two rifles and several other Savage 99s, along with 50 pieces of new Winchester brass. My reloading setup will be very bare-bones at first, and I will probably not be doing a very high volume of reloading. All the load data is included with the reloading setup, but I also like to check things out on the forum just in case

Here are some specific questions:

1) Are large rifle primers the correct ones to use for this caliber?

2) What bullet weights should I try? I have heard that bullet weights from 150-165gr. work best in this caliber and not to go above 180gr. as a general rule, due to the .300's shoulder angle & short neck. Thoughts?

3) Which powders do what? (I am a complete powder ignoramus) and what powders would you recommend for pushing different bullet weights in this caliber?

4) In general, what are safe loading guidelines for this caliber? Can I use higher pressures in the 722, since it locks up at the front of the action and is a modern bolt action? Or should I just suck it up and buy an '06 or .308?

5) I have read somewhere that the .300 Savage requires some special kind of die. Are there large-base and small-base dies and which do I need? A sizing die comes with my Lee Loader, will that size work?

6) I was (am) under the impression that everything I need to begin reloading is included in my Lee Loader kit. Is there anything else that is relatively inexpensive that either I flat-out need, or would make my life a whole lot easier?

Thanks in advance for the replies-
Sam

1) Yes

2) I'd try the 150 or 165 grainer's first. My 99EG likes the 180gr the best, but he's picky.

3) Stick to powders listed on the chart that came with the Lee Loader. Those are the right powders for the dipper that came with it. Later you can get a scale and start experimenting more.

4) Don't go higher.. stick to standard loading amounts for both rifles. The VERY little bit of extra velocity you get by hotrodding it isn't worth the risk.

5) Nope, that little kit contains all you need. Follow the instructions, PM me if you have specific questions. That kit will ONLY neck size the brass, so don't mix the used brass up between your two rifles. In fact, set all your used brass aside, stick to starting with the new brass. If you try to mix, you can very easily get a stuck cartridge in the chamber. Cost me $30 to fix that oops...

6) Few things I'd get. One, a rubber mallet. Necessary for this kit. Two, a scale. I was paranoid and got a scale to start, didn't trust the dipper alone. Three, the Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee. Has a LOT of loading information, and it's a very good read for starting reloaders.

Good luck!

Sam...Calhoun gives good advice. I would only add that if you can find an experienced reloader in your area he could give you a lot of good hands on advice.

And take Calhoun's advice and get a good reloading manual or two or three and read them front to back several times.

I have had lots of luck with...... 150 and 165 Noslers, 150 spire and 150SST Hornady. IMR 4320, Reloader #12, and #15. I use nothing but Federal 210M(large rifle,match) primers, and Remington brass.Follow book loadings exactly in a 99, they are very strong, but not like a bolt action. Regular RCBS dies have worked perfect for the last 25 years.

birddog, he has the classic Lee Loader, it's a small kit that neck sizes and doesn't require a press. It's how I started, pretty darn good way to start actually.

So he doesn't need the dies. And it comes with a dipper and a sheet which lists powders which will fill the dipper with the "right" amount for the listed bullet size. But, don't use the dipper with other powders without measuring with a scale, because a dipper full of other powders is not going to be a safe load.

This is actually a cool set up.. toss it in the trunk with a rubber mallet, powder, bullets and primer and reload anywhere you want.

[color:"brown"]Sam wrote:

[color:"blue"]Here are some specific questions:

1) Are large rifle primers the correct ones to use for this caliber?
[color:"brown"]Yes, you can use any brand, but since internal cartridge pressures CAN and DO vary when different brands (CCI, Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) and/or types (standard, magnum, match, etc.) of primers are used, use the brand of primer suggested by or used in the Lee loads you are attempting to duplicate. Continue to use that brand and type of primer until you:
1) get deeper into & more knowledgable about reloading,
2) have a powder scale and other needed tools & equipment
3) are more knowledgable about reloading.[color:"blue"]

2) What bullet weights should I try? I have heard that bullet weights from 150-165gr. work best in this caliber and not to go above 180gr. as a general rule, due to the .300's shoulder angle & short neck. Thoughts?
[color:"brown"]For deer and deer sized game, I'd use the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet and IMR3031, IMR4895 or IMR4064 rifle powder. In working up my own loads the conventional way (with powder scales, resizing dies, etc.), I noticed that the maximum load of these powders filled the .300 Savage case up to the base of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet which is a LONG bullet for it's weight. You might NOT hear this "crunch" with any other 150 grain bullet including the Nosler Partition Bullet.

This might be another way you could judge how much powder you've put in the case since you don't have a powder scale. If you use the 150 grain Ballistic Tip bullet, you'll hear a few powder granules "crunch" as you seat the bullet (and the base of the bullet crushes a few powder granules) for an overall maximim cartridge (including the bullet) of 2.60 inches.

HOWEVER, do NOT depend on hearing the "crunching" of the powder, USE YOUR LEE LOADER INSTRUCTIONS AND FOLLOW THEM TO THE LETTER. I just threw the "crunching" thought in as a possible "back-up" for you. If you hear very much "crunching" of the powder granules, you may have gotten too much powder in the case!

For any larger game like elk or moose, I'd use the 165 grain Nosler Partition. I would NOT use the 180 grain bullets because they "intrude" too deeply into the cartridge's powder chamber and, as a result, limit your cartridge's powder capacity and thus it's velocity too much. You can take on any NON-DANGEROUS game in the New World with the 165 grain Nosler Partition bullets.

In fact, something you might consider is loading ONLY the 165 grain bullet since that bullet is a good bullet for ALL big game including deer and moose. This would be the most UNcomplicated loading you could do by using one load for ALL your big game hunting.[color:"blue"]

3) Which powders do what? (I am a complete powder ignoramus) and what powders would you recommend for pushing different bullet weights in this caliber?
[color:"brown"]There are a good many different rifle powders you can use. I've used IMR3031, IMR4895, IMR4064, IMR4320 and Hodgdon's Varget. I worked up excellent loads with all the powders, but the most accurate powders yielding the highest muzzle velocity (at maximum loads by weight) were IMR3031, IMR4895 and IMR4064.[color:"blue"]

4) In general, what are safe loading guidelines for this caliber? Can I use higher pressures in the 722, since it locks up at the front of the action and is a modern bolt action? Or should I just suck it up and buy an '06 or .308?
[color:"brown"]The maximum loads shown in the current reloading manuals are loads yielding no more than 46,000 Copper Units of Pressure or "C.U.P.". This is a relatively light-to-medium load for a modern bolt-action rifle like your Remington 722, but a fairly heavy load for a lever action rifle like a Model 99 Savage.

The reason for this recommended limit on loads by the SAAMI is due to the fact many .300 Savage rifles are, in fact, lever action rifles which are not.... repeat, "NOT" as capable of handlling high pressure as well as most modern bolt-action rifles. If you had a powder scale and a LOT more knowledge than you now have, you might attempt to "hot-rod" your Remington 722's loads, but at your current knowledge and skill level, that would be a GRAVE ERROR to attempt such an action now... especially since you don't have a way to determine the EXACT WEIGHT in "grains" of your powder charges... and you probably don't have much of an idea of how to determine what "high pressure signs" are in your rifle and cartridge case. You're gonna need a LOT more reloading equipment AND knowledge before to attempt to venture very close to the "edges" of the high pressure envelope.

For now, stay well within the SAFETY LIMITS of the .300 Savage cartridge and the instructions that came with your Lee Loader.[color:"blue"]

5) I have read somewhere that the .300 Savage requires some special kind of die. Are there large-base and small-base dies and which do I need? A sizing die comes with my Lee Loader, will that size work?
[color:"brown"]No... you don't need a "special kind" of die. The standard reloading die-set which consists of 2 dies for the .300 Savage is just like most of the other rifle calibers. The first die resizes (using a lubricant) the fired cartridge case and de-caps (knocks the spent primer out of the base of the case) the case. The 2nd. die seats the bullet.

However, that's just the TIP of the "iceberg".... there's several "steps" you should or COULD do between the use of the first and second dies. You can also use (I do) a neck-sizing die ONLY for your bolt-action rifle, but you must full-length resize for the cartridges you make up for your Model 99.

Keep the brass SEPARATE for EACH of your rifles. Don't attempt to interchange the brass since, once you get into reloading further and have a set of dies, a reloading press, etc., you'll only need to neck-size the brass for your Rem.722.

However, you should full-length resize the brass for your Model 99 since you'll probably find that unless you full-length resize, you might have somewhat of a problem closing the action on the Model 99 because the lever/breech-bolt system in the Model 99 doesn't have the mechanical advantage that the bolt-action has and you may find it is difficult or impossible to close the Model 99's action of a round that has not been full-length resized.

Also keep track of how many times you've reloaded the brass... and when the brass begins to fail, you'll have a good idea as to what to expect as your other bass reaches that number of times they've been reloaded.

Buy the current Lyman Reloading Handbook and READ IT cover-to-cover. Doing so will answer all of your questions about reloading... and give you many examples of loads for different calibers including your .300 Savage.[color:"blue"]

6) I was (am) under the impression that everything I need to begin reloading is included in my Lee Loader kit. Is there anything else that is relatively inexpensive that either I flat-out need, or would make my life a whole lot easier?
[color:"brown"]I'm not familiar with your Lee Loader, but others here seem to be familiar with it. Therefore, I'm not qualified to answer you on this question in the short term. However, long time... you'll find you'll begin to WANT to get into reloading at a higher level. At that time, if you've done your "homework" and read the Lyman as well as other reloading manuals which give full explanations about how to reload, you'll have a pretty good idea of what other equipment you'll need.

Then, too... you can always ask us here in the Savage Forum or ask the same question in the Big Game Reloading Forum.

Quite frankly, there's a LOT you don't know, but that's ok... we all started at the SAME POINT you're starting at right now. If you don't remember anything else, ALWAYS remember this...

"[color:"red"]If in doubt, ERROR on the SIDE of SAFETY!".[color:"brown"]

One other thing... with a full set of reloading dies, tools, etc. so that you are fully capable of reloading your cartridges SAFELY up to the "maximum" .300 Savage loads for your rifle... the deer won't be able to tell the "difference" between being hit by a bullet from your .300 Savage rifles or being hit by a bullet from a .308 Winchester rifle since there is only about 150 fps-175 fps or so "difference" in their muzzle velocity using the SAME bullet. By the same token, you'll find the recoil of your .300 Savage to be noticably lighter than the .308 Winchester.

My current handload for my 1953 Model 99 "EG" with a 24-inch barrel is a MAXIMUM LOAD (do not exceed this maximum load) consisting of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 which yields a chronographed muzzle velocity of 2680 fps with a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. This load consistently shoots 3-shot groups measuring � of an inch or LESS at 100 yards.

You'll find any rifle (bolt-action or otherwise) hard-pressed to exceed the fine accuracy of the Model 99 Savage. By the way, this level of accuracy is COMMON in most Model 99s.

I hope I haven't given you more information than you can absorb... but this is about the least complicated explanation I could give you and still try to give you MOST of the pertinent information you should have. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

"My current handload for my 1953 Model 99 "EG" with a 24-inch barrel is a MAXIMUM LOAD (do not exceed this maximum load) consisting of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 which yields a chronographed muzzle velocity of 2680 fps with a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. This load consistently shoots 3-shot groups measuring � of an inch or LESS at 100 yards."

Thanks for sharing Ron...I will have to give that a try. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Is Herters brass any good? If not I have gobbs of Winchester & Remington brass.

Sam, all of the above is very good info for when you've bought more equipment. Bookmark it and keep it, cuz you will want it in the future. But for now.. unless you buy a scale, only buy the powders listed for the bullet sizes on the chart that came with the loader. I second the 165gr bullet size as a good all around bullet.

Once you get a scale, you can start experimenting with other powders. But you can't do that with only your Loader kit, and you really don't need to at first.

By the way.. the world record for accuracy was held for 11 years with shells reloaded with a Lee Loader kit, I believe. Or at least one record.. I'm sure he used a scale and lots more tricks than we use, but that kit will do you while you figure out if you like it or not.

I got them kits for 30-30, 243, and I think 30-06. Never had a bit of problem with them.

Have heard that Herters brass is great stuff.

Never owned any though.

Sam
I started with a lee loader for my 222 and from then on i was hooked.Ive expanded my equiptment now and have several presses and and other stuff and will still play with that original loader as it neck sizes only and that make for some accurate ammo
enjoy but read alot,I recomend lymans load book but any of them will have the info to safely role your own
dave

[color:"brown"]Brents99.........

I've never used Herter's brass. Therefore, I can't comment on it's quality or "use-ablity".

I normally try to use Winchester brass whenever possible since their brass's case walls are slightly thinner thus giving slightly greater powder capacity and, as a result, slightly greater muzzle velocity due to a slightly larger powder capacity which can be utilized by slightly slower burning powders in many situations.

I found the last container of IMR4895 I purchased came in a "bottle" rather than the rectangle-shaped metal can IMR traditionally used in the past. Of course, since Hodgdon now owns IMR, they apparently are using their (Hodgdon's) powder bottles rather than the traditional IMR metal cans for powder containers.

However, the problem was that in using my new container of IMR4895, I found a charge of 41.5 grains of the "new" IMR4895 powder (still made in the same Canadian plant in which the original IMR4895 was made, according to sources at Hodgdon) was over 75 fps SLOWER in muzzle velocity than my old IMR4895.

I established this fact beyond any reasonable doubt by shooting a "control round" I had formally loaded using the older IMR4895 powder I purchased a few years ago that came in the rectangle-shaped can in which the IMR powders traditionally came.

While I might buy one more 1 lb. container of the IMR4895 to make sure it no longer will produce a muzzle velocity similar to the IMR4895 I've been purchasing for over 10 years, I intend to re-evaluate IMR3031 by working up loads of IMR3031 which also gave not quite as good, but still very good accuracy results and slightly greater muzzle velocity results in the extensive component tests I ran in 2002 using 5 different powders, 4 different primers and 3 different 150 grain bullets since I feel the loss of 75 fps in my hunting load is not acceptable.

While I can not prove it, I feel this fairly great velocity loss may be due to a possible manufacturing change in the IMR4895 powder or a change in it's chemical formula.

In any event, I suggest you buy a 1 lb. container of IMR3031 as well as a pound of IMR4895 and work up your loads in both powders, keeping good records of the accuracy of the loads and the chronographed muzzle velocities achieved in your tests.

Incidentally, for your information and use, my original test loads consisted of the following:
1) Once fired Winchester cartridge cases in which the primer pocket had been "uniformed" and the excess brass pushed up into the cartridges powder chamber when the factory "punches out" the flash-hole cut off. In addition, all cartridge cases had been trimmed to minimum length (1.865 inches) and inside/outside neck chamfered and the bullet seated to give a maximum overall cartridge length of 2.60 inches.
2) A 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet.
3) 41.5 grains of IMR4895 OR 40.0 grains of IMR3031.
4) A standard Winchester large rifle primer.

[color:"red"]CAUTION: BOTH OF THE ABOVE POWDER LOADS ARE MAXIMUM LOADS. USE NORMAL HAND-LOADING PRACTICES BY REDUCING EACH LOAD BY 10% AND WORKING BACK UP TO THE MAXIMIM LOAD CAREFULLY WHILE WATCHING FOR HIGH PRESSURE SIGNS.[color:"brown"]

Please let me know how your test results come out. I'll be conducting the same tests with the same two IMR powders in the Spring when the weather is more pleasant in Ohio. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Thanks Ron, Mike....I will let you all know how it turns out.

Still in the process of building my bench so it might be a little while but will let you all know just the same.

Brent

I would just like to thank all of you for providing so much info for this newcomer to reloading, it is more than he will ever get from a manual or reloading book. I've been reloading since I was 14 and wish the internet was available back then, it would have saved me from a lot of headaches....Scott

Years ago when visiting a Herters store I asked who made their brass for them and was told Norma. I can't claim that's true but have used it for years and its always worked well. Biggest problem these days is finding it.

Blown away by the responses, guys. I figured the Savage forum might be a good place to ask. Thanks for all the GREAT info, everyone. I'll take your advice. Start slow and careful, and stick to what info is in the BOOK! I love both my rifles.. and my face. Sounds like a wonderful hobby I'm getting into! Thanks again.
-Sam
ps. Anyone else reads this, keep the info comin! =)

That's good to know..thanks.

Sam....not trying to hijack your thread but had another question.

How many reloads can you get out of a shell? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[color:"brown"]Brents & Sam........

How many reloads you get from a cartridge case is directly related to how heavy a load you put into the case and how strong your brass case is. Using light-to-medium loads, the case could last several times longer than if you are using maximum loads each time.

I've gotten as many as 15 mild-to-moderate reloads from individual RIFLE cases and never had a case failure. However, I've read that after just 4 or 5 reloadings using MAXIMUM loads which yielded very high pressures, rifle cases have failed... usually due to head-separation.

I've always made it a "rule" to carefully INSPECT each case before I attempt to reload it. With 50,000 to 65,000 PSI going off 4 or so inches in front of your nose, you do NOT want any "case failures"!!!

As to pistol cases, my curiousity got the best of me one time... and so, I reloaded & immediately fired and reloaded again, time after time... and kept count of the number of times I reloaded and fired a nickel-plated Winchester .357 Magnum cartridge using 146 grain half-jacketed hollow-point bullet in front of 16 grains of 2400 powder (a maximum load) sparked by a CCI magnum pistol primer TWENTY-FIVE TIMES (25)... and finally gave up on the task because the case was STILL in what appeared to be "perfect" condition and still fully capable of handling another reloading!!!


Sam... you're welcome for the responses... and you're smart to stay with MILD loads until you get a powder scale and learn how to use it. And even then, don't PUSH the "envelope". Reloading is a great hobby and totally SAFE as long as you reload responsibility. NEVER take a "chance" when reloading... always KNOW exactly where you stand and what you can expect out of your reloads. You can NEVER check things too often or be "too careful".

Good luck... and get a reloading book or three... and read them fully & faithfully. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Sam, I picked up a 722 in 300 Savage last year and am working up a load now for it. I am using my old Rem brass, Fed. primers, IMR4895 powder, and the Hornady 165 gr. spire points. Hopefully this will be a good combo in the 722.

Hey Sam ......

If you can find'em for a good price , I recommend the Lyman 310 � tong tool � ��. This is a great vintage tool to pack with you to the range . You won�t need the �Caveman tool � ( mallet ) �.. I will , on occasion , take this tool to the range ( for nostalgia and convenience ) . I will get looks from the � younger � guy�s , who eventually will work themselves over to see what it is . The �Older � guy�s always come over and share the - � I remember when � stories �� it�s a great tool .

Or, for a bunch less time looking and $$ spent he can buy the Lee hand press. I like yours better though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Keeping an eye open for one of those...