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I picked up a 1 lb jug a few weeks back, because the velocities shown on Alliant's website seemed really great for the 3 guns for which I'm currently loading, (7mm-08, 243, and 30-06), and it is supposedly temp insensitive.
I loaded up a few test loads last week and shot them on Saturday. With the 243, I'm shooting 80 gr ttsx and I got the best groups I have shot so far with that gun after trying 3 other powders, about 7/8" which isn't bad for a model 7 with a 11" LOP cut off stock that doesn't fit me at all.
In my 7mm-08, I got 1.5" groups which didn't satisfy me, but those were about the same as I got with RL-15 and better than Big Game using the same 139 SST bullets. I'm thinking the gun doesn't like the SST, and I'm moving on to something else. It shoots 3/4" or better groups routinely with 120 ttsx, but I'm just wanting to try something different.
Anybody else spent any time working with RL-16 yet? Does it live up to expectations?
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It's my go-to for the 6.5 Creed now. I also shot in cold temps and saw no loss in velocity. 70 down to 12deg.
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Yes. Try it in the 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. I load mine with 56.0 gr under a 180 Partition. SubMOA.
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I wasn't impressed with accuracy or velocity in a Tikka T-3X 7-08. Velocities weren't anywhere near what Alliant states it should be.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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I wasn't impressed with accuracy or velocity in a Tikka T-3X 7-08. Velocities weren't anywhere near what Alliant states it should be. That's disappointing.
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Campfire Kahuna
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bludog,
Alliant doesn't state what velocities "should be." Instead they report what happened in their test barrel.
There are at least three reasons I can immediately think of for velocities not to be the same in your rifle, none of them having to with Alliant's data.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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MD and SP,
I don't really want to talk semantics with either of you. I respect your opinions, all I am stating is that in my own personal experience RL16 produced way slower velocities than I anticipated based on Alliant's listed velocities and my experience with this same rifle and other powders.
Others may vary, and that is fine. With this same rifle, I've been very close to expected (or tested if you prefer) with CFE-223 and Alliant's 2000-MR, just not getting anywhere close with RL-16.
As a matter of fact, velocities are around 200 fps less than listed.
Those are the facts - so I'm not sure what either one of your points are.
Thanks,
bludog
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Those are the facts - so I'm not sure what either one of your points are. No big deal blu. I can't speak for MD, but my point was, there are several reasons your velocities could vary from the book. And they don't all have to do with the rifle even.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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MD and SP,
I don't really want to talk semantics with either of you.
Semantics? You lost me on that one.
Those are the facts - so I'm not sure what either one of your points are.
Well, at least you're easy to help... 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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bludog,
I didn't detail any of the possible reasons for your low velocities, so will now.
Many other people have reported RL-16 velocities similar to those in Alliant's data, and in fact you're the first person I've read about who reported low velocities. Several possibilities exist for this to occur:
First, the assumption your chronograph was working correctly. Among around a dozen chronographs, I've owned two of one particular brand of popular chronograph that eventually proved unreliable, and seen the same brand causing trouble for other shooters at local ranges. My second one recorded velocities 100 fps difference depending on whether the sky was clear or cloudy. Low batteries can also cause problems. We don't know what chronograph you used, or if the RL-16 loads were the only ones you tried that day. But if you chronographed other loads during the same session and they all produced "normal," consistent velocities, we can rule out chronograph aberrations.
You happened to get a slow batch of powder. This can happen, but isn't common, and when it does velocity difference is rarely 200 fps. In fact I don't recall ever seeing as much as 100 fps.
You used a different bullet than anything listed in Alliant's data, and these days the pressures (and therefore velocities) produced by different bullets vary considerably. In fact different brass and primers can also result in lower velocities, as can seating bullets farther off the lands. I've seen as much as 250 fps difference in velocity when using different bullets of the same weight, with the same powder charge, in the same rifle.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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And in addition to your list, a "loose" chamber, and/or barrel.
Or a combination of everything...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Kahuna
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Brad,
I didn't list that, because he says other powders have performed about as expected. But he might have tried them with bullets similar to those listed in published data. It would be interesting to hear the details.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Gotchya John, that makes sense.
SWH had RL16 this week and I dawdled and missed getting some when I went back today. I've got a 7-08 I want to try some in.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, I've been looking for it too, with SWH in Helena the most likely candidate in brick-and-mortar, but haven't seen any there yet--or any of the other 4 local stores I frequent.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Gotchya John, that makes sense.
SWH had RL16 this week and I dawdled and missed getting some when I went back today. I've got a 7-08 I want to try some in. I ordered some from powder valley this week along with a bunch of other stuff... Mid week I'll have it to try...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Brownells has it. Got an email this morning for 1 cent HazMat and free shipping on orders $150+. Code for that is L9X.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks for the information, but I'm not going to pay a haz-mat fee and shipping, or buy $150 worth of stuff, to try a sample of a new powder--even though I often order my stand-by powders from various websites, because I buy them in larger quantities, amortizing the extra costs.
In fact I'm a little leery of the new Alliant Reloder powders right now, not because of poor results but because of relatively poor availability. Reloder 26 has been yacked about considerably on the Campfire for at least a year, and I haven't heard of anybody who's been unhappy with it.
But it's still relatively hard to find, and that seems to be continuing despite our present shooting-friendly president. If the scarcity of 26 continues, few shooters are going to bother using it despite it's virtues, because these days there are a LOT of good powders.
So I'm going to keep checking local stores to see if any RL-16 appears among the always available array of 15, 17, 19 and 22. If it doesn't, then why bother testing something most handloaders aren't going to buy?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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haha yup aside from RL-10 and RL-22 they seem to have trouble keeping the even numbered RLs in stock 
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, it's hard to keep in stock when most stores can't even get any to stock. Only one of the five local stores I regularly check has even gotten any 26 to put on the shelves, and none have received any 16.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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All have RL16 available at time of link: Midway USA Grafs Midsouth Powder Valley But I found it at a small local place too. The hazmat is a pain in the wallet, but I've learned to bite the bullet and move on vice wait.
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I can get Re16 easier than 26 locally. Last time I ran into both, on different occasions, I bought 4 lbs of each - or all they had. I'm good for a while because it will only get loaded for hunting loads. At ~ 70 rounds per pound, I doubt I'll use 280 rounds between sight-in and game shot over the next 10 years. I have a bit more testing to do with Re16 in my latest 30-06 but initial loads are MOA. If it stays there, I'll search for an 8lber of each - my 270 loves Re 26.
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The only powder not obtainable here is H4350 which is why I never bothered with it. Alliant powders have all been available. Heck they even had H1000, H4831 and H4831SC all next to one another.....
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bludog,
I didn't detail any of the possible reasons for your low velocities, so will now.
Many other people have reported RL-16 velocities similar to those in Alliant's data, and in fact you're the first person I've read about who reported low velocities. Several possibilities exist for this to occur:
First, the assumption your chronograph was working correctly. Among around a dozen chronographs, I've owned two of one particular brand of popular chronograph that eventually proved unreliable, and seen the same brand causing trouble for other shooters at local ranges. My second one recorded velocities 100 fps difference depending on whether the sky was clear or cloudy. Low batteries can also cause problems. We don't know what chronograph you used, or if the RL-16 loads were the only ones you tried that day. But if you chronographed other loads during the same session and they all produced "normal," consistent velocities, we can rule out chronograph aberrations.
You happened to get a slow batch of powder. This can happen, but isn't common, and when it does velocity difference is rarely 200 fps. In fact I don't recall ever seeing as much as 100 fps.
You used a different bullet than anything listed in Alliant's data, and these days the pressures (and therefore velocities) produced by different bullets vary considerably. In fact different brass and primers can also result in lower velocities, as can seating bullets farther off the lands. I've seen as much as 250 fps difference in velocity when using different bullets of the same weight, with the same powder charge, in the same rifle.
MD (Brad, et al), Thank you for taking the time to provide the potential causes. I appreciate it very much. And I apologize for the delay in responding, but we just returned back home from an extended stay in AZ, and I just now got to my reloading records. This is a fairly new rifle, and was only the second time I've had it on the range, the first with a chronograph (a Shooting Chrony). The rifle produced "expected" velocities that same day with 120 gr NBT and 44.5 gr Varget of 3009,, 3009, and 2989 fps. So I would tend to rule out the chrony. Velocities with 46.5 gr RL-16 and 140 gr NBT were 2726, 2710, and 2715 fps. Note that Alliant lists the 140 gr NPT getting 2952 fps with 47.2 gr of RL-16, with a 24" barrel. The Tikka barrel is 22.5". I also shot some 140 gr Sierra HPBTs using 47.5 gr RL-17 and recorded velocities of 2873, 2852, and 2886 fps. To me, the Varget and RL-17 velocities are very in the "expected" range and to me, the RL-16 velocities were "way slow". You can decide for yourselves. Thanks again, and I will try this powder again, and let you know if I see some improvements. V/R, bludog
Last edited by bludog; 02/25/17.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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I can get Re16 easier than 26 locally. Last time I ran into both, on different occasions, I bought 4 lbs of each - or all they had. I'm good for a while because it will only get loaded for hunting loads. At ~ 70 rounds per pound, I doubt I'll use 280 rounds between sight-in and game shot over the next 10 years. I have a bit more testing to do with Re16 in my latest 30-06 but initial loads are MOA. If it stays there, I'll search for an 8lber of each - my 270 loves Re 26. How are you only getting 70 rounds loaded per pound of powder? Wouldn't that be 100 grains of powder per load? In 270 Win. and 30/06 I get about 120 loads per pound.
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Yep - it's that new math. 😉
Good catch and thanks for straightening that out.
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Campfire Kahuna
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bludog,
The big difference I'm seeing is you used 140 Nosler Ballistic Tips with RL-16, and Alliant's data was shot with 140 Nosler Partitions.
Partitions are well-known for producing more pressure (and hence velocity) than other bullets of the same weight, including Ballistic Tips. In fact, as noted in one of my earlier posts, I've seen two bullets of the same weight, in the same cartridge, with the same powder charge, result in 250 fps difference in muzzle velocity.
The rifle was a Model 70 Winchester belonging to a friend, factory-chambered for the .270 Weatherby Magnum. I don't remember what the powder was, but at that time the Hornady manual listed the maximum charge as getting 3400 fps with the 130 Hornady Interlock Spire Point, and he'd worked up to that point with no problems.
At that time my buddy didn't own a chronograph, so one day we shot his Interlock handloads over mine, and they did get just about 3400. He then said he'd loaded some 130 Partitions too, and wanted to try them. They got around 3650 fps--with the same brass, primer and powder charge.
Before passing judgment on Alliant's data you might want to try the same load with the same bullet they used.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Good point, and I will try the 140 partitions. I find it interesting though, that Nosler data lists all of their offerings (except the e-tip) when providing max load data. So does Hornady, and Sierra. So, I will give the RL-16 another opportunity and report back.
Thanks for your input and the discussion,
bludog
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Nosler's max loads are for the bullet that results in the highest pressure--with the exception of the E-Tip. (They used to suggest stopping with the middle load with E-Tips, but have started varying that warning.) That way pressures with any of the other bullets in that weigh/caliber will be safe.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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What I have found with partitions because of their shorter length and the ogive profile is you can be closer than to the lands with them when loaded to the same coal.
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I can't even find Reloader 16 in the MD & N. VA area except for Bass Pro, and I won't pay $39 per pound for powder.
Is this Bofors powder that much better to make it worth switching from Hodgdon/IMR powders?
The whole "Made in USA" argument is N/A, this stuff is made in Sweden.
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So far RL-16 is looking real promising in my 30.06 and 270.
My "Go to" load in 30.06 was 58gr of H4350 with a 165gr Nosler Accubond. 3 shots with this load(confirmed several times)would go 0.58" to 0.75" at 100 yds. Chronographed velocity was always consistent at 2860 fps no matter what temp it was outside(from 20 deg. to 85 deg. during my testing). I'd have been happy to shoot this load for the rest of my life but due to the unavailability of H4350 the past couple years I figured I better try something else, just in case the shortage continues.
Tried RL-16 for the first time this past weekend after looking over published data on the Alliant website for 30.06 and 270 win. Glad I did cause my 30.06 is printing nice little 0.6" 3-shot groups at 100yds and average velocity is 2915 fps!( 165gr Accubond pushed by 57gr RL-16)Alliant's book max for 165gr bullet is 57.4gr. My rifle shoots that 57.4gr max at 2945 fps! First 2 shots went into 1 ragged hole with the 3rd pulled 1 inch to the right. I need to shoot both of these loads again to confirm accuracy but it looks like I may have a very accurate 165gr Accubond load moving along at just shy of 2950 fps! ES and SD on both these loads were in the single digits which tells me this powder is very consistent.
Accuracy and velocities in the 270 win with both 130gr Partitions and 140gr Accubonds is looking very promising also.
H4350 may not be needed in my future.
Leftybolt
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Kind of what I found as well. The up side is that I have both an H4350 and Re16 load for my 30-06.
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Here's a followup to my post above regarding Reloader 16:
30.06
165gr Nosler Accubond
RL 16 57.0 gr
Rem. brass
Federal 210 match primer
OAL = 3.280"
Velocity = 2,915 fps
Accuracy for three 3-shot groups at 107 yds is as follows: 0.6"(calm day - no wind), 0.74", 0.81"(10 mph head wind).
57.5gr(Max. load) produced slightly larger(but still respectable) 3 shot groups of 0.98" and 1.10" respectively(head wind).
None of the usual "high pressure" signs observed(heavy bolt lift, flat primers, shiny marks on case head etc.).
Think I'll stick with 57.0 grs.
As a side note:
Reloader 16 in my 270 didn't work out so well accuracy-wise. However Reloader 26 has since proven very effective!
270 Win.
140gr Nosler Accubond
RL 26 61.5 gr(Max. load)
Win. brass
Fed. 215 match primer
OAL = 3.270"
Vel = 3,180 fps
Accuracy = 3-shot group at 107 yds of 0.54"
Note: Same load using Fed. 210 match primer produced 3-shot group of 1.0"(velocity remained the same).
I think I'm done with load work up!😁
Leftybolt
Last edited by leftybolt; 05/21/17.
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My latest 30-06 shot Re16 better than H4350, Re17, and Hunter. 56.5 under a 180 Partition, fired by a Fed 210. 5 shot group right at 1". 2804 ft/sec. Elk load DONE!
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Yep, that'll do nicely!
Never though I'd see these kinds of velocities in 30.06 and 270 win. with safe pressures.
Pretty impressive.
Leftybolt
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Agree. My 270 throws 150 Partitions at 3050 with Re26. May have a good supply of both powders 😎
A guy could do worse than have 3 rifles built off the 06 case. 270 with 130-150, 30-06 with 180-200, 35 Whelen 225-250. Alliant needs to dream up a powder to make the 35 wh into a 338. If I didn't already own a 300 WSM that shoots 200 Partitions well, I'd do another 35 wh.
Last edited by bwinters; 05/21/17.
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