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Joined: Jul 2011
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Joined: Jul 2011
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"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436 |
30/30. Learn him to get inside 100 yards.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 754
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 754 |
Thanks to all for all the great comments, advice and suggestions....
I really appreciated all the replies.
:-)
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --- Will Rogers
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,177 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,177 Likes: 4 |
I have both. I carry my Dad's '94 on walk-about (for over 20 years now), killed my first moose with a Marlin 336, back in about '70. Killed my first Dall ram with the Rem 700 .243, as did my wife on her first (only) moose. Go with the .243. Shot placement is almost everything - caliber and bullet weight matters, but recoil is less than the .30-30, promoting better placement. The 100 gr. .243 will do fine on most NA game with good placement. The .243 has less recoil, so will promote better placement. Louder, so use ear protection when practicing. In fact, double it up, plugs and muffs. Bolt rifles tend to be more accurate than levers, tho my '94 is near as accurate (or better) as the 700 at 100 yards. Aperature sights vs scope, at that. MY eyes ain't that good anymore, and the 700 ain't that accurate, but there you go...
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,350
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,350 |
How about a .243 lever action like the Henry Long Ranger?
Music washes away the dust of everyday life Some people wait a lifetime to meet their favorite hunting and shooting buddy. Mine calls me dad
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,177 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,177 Likes: 4 |
With exceptions, bolt action rifles tend to be more accurate than levers, or so they tell me.... . I suspect the physical action of working a bolt also tends to "settle" a shooter more than working a lever. Again, exceptions.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,970 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,970 Likes: 4 |
Marlin XS7 in 243 from CDNN, $250 while they last, but if you want one, you'd better hurry.
Plus, I think that exposed hammer firearms are dangerous in the hands of the great majority of novice hunters or at least in the hands of those who I have seen while afield. Hammer block safeties solved that problem 30 years ago.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,009
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,009 |
Let him hang out with all the cool kids--- 6.5 Creedmoor! Ruger American Predator, just about perfect for starting out, plus has room to grow into and personalize. If the hearing protection act passes - just put a suppressor on it. No need to buy a new gun. Affordable, accurate... uber cool. Not being a wisenheimer, just saying that there are several great things going for the 6.5--- one of them being affordable match grade ammo that is very accurate and builds confidence in shot placement. Plus its a sheer joy to shoot. Versatility , as others have mentioned 6.5 creedmoor can be used for a lot of different hunts. And final point, while nothing is wrong with either a 243 or 30-30, a love affair with a 6.5 creedmoor could turn him into a rifle looney like the rest of us nutcases on the fire. I still have a 30-30, and several 243's. I can't tell you how many years it has been since either of them have been on a hunt. 6.5 creedmoor however, gets used all the time. Coyotes, deer, antelope, even took an elk with it.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,397
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,397 |
I bought a RAR in 243 Win last year for my wife. Although the finish is a bit rough, the price was very reasonable and it is a very good shooter. It's plenty accurate.
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,400 Likes: 1 |
Let him handle examples of both rifles and make the decision on which fits him the best. The cartridge difference will be negligible for a novice shooter as he will have no business shooting at game past about 150 yds for a long while anyway. Get him a good fixed 4X scope with a simple duplex reticle. Keep the whole rig as simple as you can. If he graduates to being a rifle loony, he will want other rifles in the future anyway. Fit to shooter is the most important factor.
Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,011
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,011 |
I'm really confused on your 2 choices. Kind of like asking if you should buy a jeep or a Prius and not considering anything else. My answer on your 2 choices would be neither. While either will work and I have used rifles similar to both on deer, my inclination would be a bolt action in a caliber anywhere from 257 to 308 starting with mild reloads or reduced factory fodder. That would give the young man a rifle he can use for the rest of his hunting lifetime and be adequate for almost anything in most of NA.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,317 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,317 Likes: 7 |
Let him handle examples of both rifles and make the decision on which fits him the best. The cartridge difference will be negligible for a novice shooter as he will have no business shooting at game past about 150 yds for a long while anyway. Get him a good fixed 4X scope with a simple duplex reticle. Keep the whole rig as simple as you can. If he graduates to being a rifle loony, he will want other rifles in the future anyway. Fit to shooter is the most important factor. Probably the best advice yet.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Marlin XS7 in 243 from CDNN, $250 while they last, but if you want one, you'd better hurry.
Plus, I think that exposed hammer firearms are dangerous in the hands of the great majority of novice hunters or at least in the hands of those who I have seen while afield. That's a great price on rifles that, if not prom queens, have a reputation for shooting well. Not so sure about the exposed hammer thing. First, others can easily see if the rifle is fully cocked or not, something that can be more difficult wit bolt guns. Second, many such rifles not have hammer-block safeties, making them little different than bolt guns. Third, novices can easily fail to use the safety on a bolt gun, or improperly cycle cartridges to unload the magazine. The big difference I see is when lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. The opportunity for an AD due to a thumb slip certainly exists. I know that for a fact...
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,268 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,268 Likes: 11 |
The big difference I see is when lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. The opportunity for an AD due to a thumb slip certainly exists. I know that for a fact... That's what the crossbolt safety is for.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,400 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
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The big difference I see is when lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. The opportunity for an AD due to a thumb slip certainly exists. I know that for a fact... That's what the crossbolt safety is for. Yep, have always been partial to the presafety Marlins, but 11 year old daughter showed me that the safety has it place. Kids especially can let that hammer slip when lowering. Luckily were practicing an unloaded rifle.
Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Lever action 30-30s are fun and quite capable but I would pick a bolt action 243 10 times out of 10 for this purpose. Pick the right scope and they will work close to far. A fixed 4, fixed 6 or 2-7/2.5-8 would be just about right. Ruger American, Marlin X7, Remington 700, etc.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,951 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,951 Likes: 5 |
A bolt gun in 243 is near perfect for deer and borderline acceptable for game up to elk with less recoil than a lever action 30-30. If game larger than deer were in the discussion I'd probably opt for one of the 6.5's, 7-08 or 308, but between the 2 I'd go 243 hands down.
Levers are just more complex than they need to be for inexperienced shooters. The ones with crossbolt safeties are safer to unload, but it is still another step. I consider 30-30 to be quite over rated. Sure it kills stuff, but so does every other smokeless powder round invented since 1890. It offers no advantage over any of them, even some that predate the 30-30.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,268 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,268 Likes: 11 |
I'd bet I've killed more deer with a .30-30 and .243 than anybody else on this thread. Killed my 80th this past season with the .30-30 and 30ish {lost count} with the .243. Both kill deer but the .30-30 is the better deer cartridge at the 50-150 yard ranges quoted by the OP. It's better because it's 170 grain .30 caliber bullets almost always exit on anything but a lenghthwise shot, even through both shoulders or with quartering shots and consistently puts more blood on the ground. It may not be a spectacular killer or a long range flat shooter but it's a damned awful dependable killer inside 200 yards. The hogwash that the .30-30 kicks more than the .243 is just that. In fact, in equal weight rifles, recoil energy is so close between the two with common deer weight bullets as to hardly be worth mentioning. The thing being, most of the cheap, lightweight, bolt guns recommended so far are substantially lighter than a 336 and consequently would actually recoil more.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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A lot of the people who talk about how unimpressed they are with the .30-30 have never shot anything with one. Or so I've noticed.
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