Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser a POS

Sure.

I don't think I've ever read so much stupidity regarding the use of a chronograph in such a short post.

David

David, it's not my intent to be picky about the comment, but I don't yet understand your "wow" about "stupidity".

las said this: "I don't need to obsess over speed. Good groups, bullet construction/performance, and knowing the trajectory of the round is far more important than speed."
Kindly explain any stupidity in that statement.

las said: "The crony will only tell you how it should perform according to the charts. You still have to shoot it at ranges. The other thing it might tell you is the consistency of your loads, which can be a good thing. Again provable otherwise by actual shooting."
Kindly explain any stupidity in that statement.

If there is something else in las post that is stupid, it would be nice to see explanation of that.

Thanks.

I think what David is missing here is that las is a been there, done that kinda guy. Might has something to do with decades of killing lots of game up above the Arctic Circle. Nothing wrong with using a chronograph, he doesn't and it works for him. Maybe them monster cajun bucks only react to projectiles launched at a particular speed.

CCCC & Ptarmigan,

I see ya'll are begging to get into it, allow me to provide a more detailed response:

In 50 plus years of shooting/hunting I've yet to crony a load. If it works, it works. It's up to me to position it. I don't need to obsess over speed.


I have zero disagreement with this. Lots of game killed over the years without the use of a chronograph, and I certainly don't obsess over speed.


Good groups, bullet construction/performance, and knowing the trajectory of the round is far more important than speed.
The crony will only tell you how it should perform according to the charts. You still have to shoot it at ranges.

Maybe you could make a case for this argument back when you couldn't buy a scope that tracked reliably, chrony's were less accurate and BC's were estimated instead of measured. With an accurate chrony and a reliable measured BC the trajectory will be precisely mapped out. With reliable scopes that actually track the prescribed amount, accurate range finders and bullets with known reliable BC's I can shoot a zero at 100ydss and make first round hits out to my max available range of 700yds.

If you don't know the velocity of your round you're just guessing. Fundamentally more important, you're guessing about wind drift as that is a function of time of flight, wind vector(s) and BC. As long as your practice includes 2 uncontrolled variables you will have a fundamentally difficult time - easily eliminated with a relatively cheap chronograph.

The other thing it might tell you is the consistency of your loads, which can be a good thing. Again provable otherwise by actual shooting. I cut out the chrony middleman....tho I do use the factory statistics and charts- which seldom exactly match the gun/me /range live shoots.

A chronograph provides a lot more data to the handloader than just the consistency of their loads.

No kidding! The factory charts aren't reliable?!?!? Wonder why that is? If you had ever used a chronograph you would know why.







I have zero problem with anyone that doesn't want buy / use a chronograph. Certainly you can kill a lot of game w/o pushing the limits on range and loads can be worked up w/o a chronograph. But to imply that a chronograph doesn't provide any useful information is just ignorant. Those statements are boldy offered from someone that has never used a chronograph.

Wow!

David

Begging to get into it? You get wowed pretty easily. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you like to wow yourself pretty often too. Thanks for the laugh! Meanwhile las will keep piling up game...

Speaking of getting wowed easily,,,,

Didn't realize las was a hero of yours, sorry if disagreeing with a post he made on a discussion forum made you uncomfortable.

David

WOW?

Hey look - another post where you wisely chose not to discuss anything regarding the use of chronographs! I'm starting to understand why you feel the need to defend las's ignorance.

Bless your heart.

David

I don't care about the use of chronographs in regards to this conversation. I was just beating around the bush getting to the point that you sound like a dick. Pretty sure I've zeroed right in. Thanks for the blessing.

I was not begging to get into anything - simply could not understand any basis your "wow" and "stupid" remarks. And, still I don't. You did not point out a single "stupid" thing in las post.

The chronograph tells me one simple thing - the fps velocity of the bullet passing through the screens. Every other piece of information "told" to me depends upon loading data and my own comparative measures (instead might use BC/efficiency charts prepared by others).

General trajectory in terms of bullet rise/drop is not difficult to determine without a chronograph if one carefully uses load data and a few well-spaced targets Even with a fps reading from my Chrony, I still need to deal with height of sight above bore and a few other common issues, none of which depend on the chronograph.

Unless I am willing to move the chrono out to progressively greater distances and manage to shoot through the screens appropriately at 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 yards etc., the device in front of me tells one simple thing. Maybe you move yours out, and out, and out, etc. That would be a different case.

I never criticize anyone who uses a chronograph, or anyone who does not. There is nothing "stupid" in either case.

I see.

So your entire point of contention is that I said something negative about one of las's posts - regardless of how wrong he was?


HaHa!


I'm sure this isn't the first dick you've zeroed right in on.


David

Your own ignorance is clouding your judgement - you're making statements based on facts that just ain't so. Reread my post carefully and compare it to what you wrote. If you can't figure it out from there I don't think I can help you, you either don't comprehend or more likely don't want to.

I didn't criticize las for not using a chronograph - lots of people don't. Lots of people don't use optic sights at all, don't use metallic cartridges, etc...

This wasn't a point of contention about how luddite a system can be and work to kill game. las was making it clear that a chronograph doesn't supply any useful information and that's why he doesn't use one. He's wrong on both counts.

David

How in hell did we ever kill anything without a chronograph?

My two POS Swedes......



Steyr Mannlicher Classic, 6.5 x 55


Got this one in last week. Hope to blood it later this week on a hoglet or two using 156 gr. Norma Oryx.



Sako Bavarian, 6.5 x 55.


Ain't killed no trophy critters with it yet



but it works just fine when it comes to makin' meat!



ya!



GWB

geedub......you still rock! Sweet!

As par- very nice.

Is the M-S a set trigger? Came close to getting one like that.....seemed to have a high/higher comb in a strong euro style and I wondered how the cheek weld would be...on GBO.

Does the Sako B shoot as well?

geedubya, great pictures as always. I do believe your gun room must be something to behold. The 156 gr Oryx works in the 264 WM too by the way, need to try them in our 260 and 6.5x55 too by the looks of it.

Yes, this Steyr has the set trigger. I have had several CZ's with set triggers, four Sakos w/ set trigger, but this one is almost too light. I've only shot it for 2 3-shot groups with the Norma factory ammo. The second group I did not use the set trigger. It's plenty light. I'm off to my lease and taking it with me, I'll use a pull gauge on it to see what both the set and regular trigger break at.

The Sako Bavarin is a sub-inch rifle, on the bench, using my 130 gr. Accubond "pet" loads. If I was a better shot, It might just cloverleaf. So far I've not missed anything I've pointed at.



100 yds.





and after adjustment, and cold barrel @ 100 yds




Most stuff I shoot is 200 yds and under so that works for me.!

ya!


GWB

My bad, make that one three shot group for the Steyr. Got mixed up with another rifle......



+/- 1.55 inches center to center. Shots 1 & 2 are with the set trigger. Shot three is not using the set.

I purchased this from the original owner for whom Steyr custom built the rifle. He did not clean the barrel before he shipped it to me and I did not clean it myself. IMHO most barrels are cleaned way to often, need to be fouled in, and then are good for at least 75 rounds or more.

I have some 130 gr. Accubonds, 140 gr. Sierras and some 160 Gr. Sierras that I will try to see if it likes any one of those better than another.

ya!


GWB

You write as though you are an expert on my ignorance and my judgment, as well as my willingness to learn. Some folks are experts on those topics, but you know nothing about those - or me in general. Not a good start.

In an effort to redeem yourself, you might try to identify and dismantle those "statements based on facts that just ain't so".

I did not seek your help, so don't feel too bad about your inability to deliver any.

What I asked for was your justification for labeling las interesting post as "stupid". You have not justified that critique. Bad form.

Just the opposite of your above statement, las did note some usefulness of a chronograph. You can read it in his post.

I may remember your posting the next time I set up my Chrony.