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I'm reloading ignorant so let me exploit my ignorance a bit and ask, is Weld Bonding an issue with Factory ammo? this is the first i've read about it and find it interesting to say the least.
Help keep our sport going. take a kid outdoors!
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Campfire Oracle
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I'm reloading ignorant so let me exploit my ignorance a bit and ask, is Weld Bonding an issue with Factory ammo? this is the first i've read about it and find it interesting to say the least. Yes
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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I used the "contact us" feature on one of the ammo manufacturers' website to ask how they deal with the issue. The response I got was the equivalent of a blank stare. This left me with the impression that it's not something they want to acknowledge or discuss.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Somebody gave me a box of really old Federal 270 wins. Was a lot of "green" around the bullets and case mouths. I figured these shells had gone through a lot of heating, cooling, and moisture associated with many seasons of Being in pickup trucks, cabins, and out in the woods....
For fun i thought I would pull one down and I was pretty surprised.... no signs of bonding and everything from the case mouth down the inside looked pretty much pristine.
Just reporting what I saw...
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Yep, seating bullets slightly deeper is an easy way to break the bond.
Another way to prevent it is not clean brass unless necessary, and it rarely is. Aside from wiping off cases that fall on the ground, I rarely clean 'em. The inside of the necks gets a light brushing, but not enough to remove the last light layer of powder-fouling. I haven't had a problem with cold-welding in many years. I also never tumble, unless absolutely necessary. I just brush necks lightly with nylon brush , wipe off grit. Lightly clean primer pockets and load. I never had issues with Cold weld. I am also lazy so in this case it has helped me........
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wasn't Weld Bonding the wagon master on "Wagon Train"? I believe he was, but I think his name was Weld Bond.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks for getting it - great show.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
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Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Today I decided to pull bullets on loads of various ages! I pulled 8x57 loaded in 86, 22-250 from 78, 30-06 mil from 52, 243 from 99, 308 from 2014, and 338 from 2011. I pulled three of each caliber! The cases all looked great on the inside, with no signs of bonding! All were loads from my bench with the exception of the 30-06. I do tumble before loading but I don't do anything to the neck for hunting loads. Just size trim to length, deburr, and load! Maybe the necks are contaminated enough that bonding is not a problem! So what did I accomplish today, nothing except entertainment! To those with bonding issues, what was used to clean the necks? The bonding sounds like some sort of electrolysis! Am I off base here? This thread has really intrigued me because I had never heard of this weld bonding before this thread! I've been reloading since 1962 and it's never come up, in my circle of reloading friends! Of course none of my group are ammo scholars, just gun nuts!
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Heym
IMO it's more commonly called Cold Weld. Unless I'm mistaken and I'm pretty sure we discussed it last year, maybe not on this forum.
Last year was my first experience with cold weld. I had some 06 loads from a couple of years back. It's a load I've used a lot in the past. But I had a couple of shots where there was difficult bolt extraction. I stopped immediately and then seated the other loaded rounds deeper. There was an audible pop/crack. I reseated the bullets again and had NO problems.I normally don't clean inside necks 'other' than swab lightly with a clean Q tip.
If you're interested enuff you might search cold weld here in Ask the Gunwriters or in Hunting Rifle forum. Good luck.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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Heym
IMO it's more commonly called Cold Weld. Unless I'm mistaken and I'm pretty sure we discussed it last year, maybe not on this forum.
Last year was my first experience with cold weld. I had some 06 loads from a couple of years back. It's a load I've used a lot in the past. But I had a couple of shots where there was difficult bolt extraction. I stopped immediately and then seated the other loaded rounds deeper. There was an audible pop/crack. I reseated the bullets again and had NO problems.I normally don't clean inside necks 'other' than swab lightly with a clean Q tip.
If you're interested enuff you might search cold weld here in Ask the Gunwriters or in Hunting Rifle forum. Good luck.
Jerry . I will do some research on line. I'm going to dig out my books on metallurgy from college and look at brass and copper composition! Just seems strange that it only happens randomly! I'm going to take a larger sample base and see if that changes the statistics I've seen.
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Nifty-250
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I wonder if acidic oils in fingerprints promote cold weld. One of my buds at work is one of those unfortunates who has to wipe all fingerprints off a firearm before putting it away, otherwise corrosion sets in and permanently etches fingerprints into the finish. I don't have that problem myself, fortunately and I wash my hands before handling components anyway, but I wonder if there's a correlation.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Campfire Ranger
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One of my buds at work is one of those unfortunates who has to wipe all fingerprints off a firearm before putting it away, otherwise corrosion sets in and permanently etches fingerprints into the finish. I have a little bit of that problem, but not quite that bad. I also have a lot of static electricity. I have problems with the wrappers on crackers like you get at a restaurant, or small candy. Can't put them down, they just stick like glue. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Miles,
Your magnetic personality could be part of your problem there! (chuckle).
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miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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It seems to be a question which comes up regularly.
The mechanism by which it occurs is diffusion: where you have two similar metals in intimate contact, with nothing between them, atoms from one can diffuse into the other, and vice versa, across the interface. Essentially they wander about and forget where they are supposed to be, until enough of them have migrated that the boundary between the the bullet and case neck is blurred, and you have a joint.
Diffusion bonding, the usual name, has some industrial applications too, especially when you want to weld really delicate or thin materials where any heating, such as is used in conventional welding, would be impracticable. I remember doing some work on just such an application many years ago, involving a miniature heat exchanger made by diffusion bonding of very thin corrugated sheets together to make a honeycomb.
If there's something between the two surfaces, it can prevent the wandering atoms from crossing the line. Something like wax for example would have such an effect. Or, as MD and I have independently found, not bothering to tumble cases and relying on grottiness seems to work too.
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Campfire Ranger
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Would spraying the bullets with Hornady OneShot, then allowing to dry before loading, work to prevent bonding without any adverse effects?
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Campfire Ranger
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I inside lube with graphite. That should help, probably not a reliable cure though.
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Campfire Outfitter
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It seems to be a question which comes up regularly.
The mechanism by which it occurs is diffusion: where you have two similar metals in intimate contact, with nothing between them, atoms from one can diffuse into the other, and vice versa, across the interface. Essentially they wander about and forget where they are supposed to be, until enough of them have migrated that the boundary between the the bullet and case neck is blurred, and you have a joint.
Diffusion bonding, the usual name, has some industrial applications too, especially when you want to weld really delicate or thin materials where any heating, such as is used in conventional welding, would be impracticable. I remember doing some work on just such an application many years ago, involving a miniature heat exchanger made by diffusion bonding of very thin corrugated sheets together to make a honeycomb.
If there's something between the two surfaces, it can prevent the wandering atoms from crossing the line. Something like wax for example would have such an effect. Or, as MD and I have independently found, not bothering to tumble cases and relying on grottiness seems to work too. Thanks for that explanation, best one I've heard yet. I'd always assumed it was a galvanic thing, but diffusion makes perfect sense. That's something that also takes place between copper and tin/lead alloys when electronic components are soldered onto circuit boards. I've been using Imperial Application Media with dry neck lube for a while with the thought in mind that whatever causes cold weld, maybe the neck lube would help interfere with the reaction. I'm not sure any of the ammo I've ever reloaded developed cold weld in the first place but prevention is a good thing, I think.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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I use Imperial dry neck lube as well and only tumble clean the brass when I have to.
I've wondered about the guys that use a bronze brush to remove the powder residue inside the case neck but I don't bother so I won't find out for myself.
"Pick your battles" and "Don't make unnecessary work for yourself" come to mind.
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