Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 300 Savage Superformance and 303 Savage possibilities?

There was an older thread on the 300 Savage Superformance ammunition, but I thought I would start a new one, as I have some load data and a different twist to add at the end for 303 Savage possibilities.

Anyhow I tried the Superformance (SPF) ammo in my Grandpa's 1949 vintage 300 EG with 24" barrel, and was impressed with the velocity and accuracy. I had to adjust the Redfield 70 receiver sight 10 mil to get the point of impact right at 100 yds, a significant change in trajectory compared to my preferred load, 39.5 gr IMR 4350 with 150 gr Sierra spitzers, velocity @ 2350 fps. While the most accurate of 5 powders tried, this load left me wishing for more for my WYO hunting purposes - either open ground/longer ranges or big timber/big critters. Note: At my shooting range, +/- a mile high in elevation, most loads fail to meet the velocities listed in reloading books, sometimes by a lot. I think the thinner air has something to do with that, decreasing burn rate/temp. We see power loss in vehicles up here as well for the same reason.

I came across an article online (http://ataleoftwothirties.com/?p=1026) where the author concluded that the powder used in the 300 Sav SPF ammo was Hornady's Leverevolution (LE) powder. He used up to 43.5 gr of powder to achieve over 2700 fps without signs of pressure. I decided to try to follow his work and duplicate the SPF ammo as follows.

My test was done yesterday on a typical Wyoming spring day, 6" new snow, 40 degrees F. SPF clocked an average of 2640 fps compared to 2670 fps on a warm day last fall (SF is advertised at 2700 fps, see above about elevation effect). Here are my loads and results. All used 150 gr Sierra spitzers, CCI 200 primers, Hornady brass from first box of SPF (incidentally old WIN brass and new HORN brass has same case thickness at neck):

41.0 gr LE: V avg = 2532 fps
42.0 gr LE: V avg = 2657 fps
42.5 gr LE: V avg = 2662 fps
43.0 gr LE: V avg = 2730 fps
43.5 gr LE: V avg = 2742 fps

These results are about as close as you can ask for the 300 Savage to get to original 30-06 performance. One thing I noticed was the variation between group velocities increased rapidly with increased charges. There was a particularly large jump in variation from the 42.0 gr charge to the 42.5 gr charge, variation of 23 fps up to 45 fps or nearly double. Variation on the 43.5 gr load was 54 fps. This, along with the 42.0 gr charge coming the closest to matching the SPF velocity, without running the risk of overpressure (trusting Hornady's engineering) caused me to select the 42.0 gr charge. I loaded up 2 full boxes of WIN brass as above. When I get time to do some accuracy testing I will post some results.

Even though I picked the 42.0 gr charge, I did not see any signs of excess pressure even on the 43.5 gr LE charge, although a hot day might change that. I could barely detect a little more swelling of the base of the case by running my finger along the edge with the higher charges than the lower charges. FWIW, higher charges of IMR 4895 than 39.5 gr gave much more case swelling than the LE loads, as well as other powders tried such as IMR 4064, 3031, etc. Factory 180 gr loads are a big NO in my mind in this gun - primers back out, cases swell excessively, etc. Ken Waters recommends heavy bullets not be used in the 99 as well, due to twist, strength of the action, etc. Anyhow I don't hunt much brush here, so I am not interested in heavy bullets at low velocity.

If I do have any complaints about Leverevolution, it is that it smells funny and is dirty. Other than that it seems to really chuck them out there without undue pressure.

I promised a new twist as reason for a new thread: Anyone tried LE in a 303 Savage? My current load is 33.5 gr of IMR 4895, 150 gr RN, V avg = 2160 fps with 24" barrel Model 1895, about 2050 fps in 22" barrel 99G. BTW killed one deer with this load with the 1895, about 150 yds. Worked OK. For 30-30, Hodgdon recommends 35 to 38.5 gr LE with 150 gr RN, with stated velocity 2300 to 2500 fps. Any experience / words of wisdom? My real question is this: Are all Savages equal, i.e. is a 1949 300 EG built to take more pressure than a 1928 99G or an 1895? While the internal actions look very similar and operation is near identical, should I factor in the improvements in steel technology, etc over the long period of time 1899's and 99's were made? I don't want to assume my 1895 can take 303 cartridges making 2500 fps just because the 300 99EG can handle that plus more before I sit down at the bench to work up some 303 LE loads. Thanks for any thoughts.

Interesting results. I would've thought that the rarified air at high altitude would allow for higher velocitiy (less resistance). Never having experimented at elevations much above sea level, I have no frame of reference and quite frankly never pondered it.

I certainly wouldn't try pushing an 1895 too hard. Of course, I don't push anything hard.

Your assumption on altitude and muzzle velocity is wrong.

Thanks for the write up!

Thanks for your info on LVR and the 300 Savage. Sounds like they are made for each other.

I haven't shot anything but light to medium cast bullets loads in my 303, but if I did load jacketed I would use LVR because my best 30/30 hunting load uses the hornady 170 grain with 36 grains LVR for about 2350 fps from a 24" bbl. My PRVI 303 brass holds 1 grain less of the LVR than my 30/30 WW brass, so I would expect pretty similar loads would be suitable.

I did find that applying a firm "factory" crimp via Lee's Factory Crimp die did lower extreme spreads and improve accuracy with the LVR in the 30/30 -- one of the few times the Lee die has proved decisively advantageous for me.

Tag for late summer reference, and deer season loading process! I'm looking forward to hearing the 303 results.

Thanks for the write-up!!

in what way?

It is not related to the phenomenon with the piston engine in a car. Having a thinner atmosphere to draw from, the automotive engine cannot generate the same cylinder pressure at high altitude that in can at lower altitude. It therefore produces less power.

The cartridge is not a piston engine having to draw in air/fuel from a thinner atmosphere. Furthermore, smokeless powder carries its own oxygen. Also, the outside atmosphere never interacts with the combustion products while the bullet is in the barrel anyway.

Mathman -

With carburated vehicles we have to advance the timing 10 to 12 degrees over the sea level settings, and use smaller jets to lean out the fuel mixture to get engines to run right. The leaner fuel mix is related to reduced oxygen content.

For the ammunition, that makes sense regarding the lack of interaction of the firing case and the atmosphere. So the question is: is my belief that cartridges do not perform as well at elevation as they do at sea level true, or just my perception? There are plenty of other factors that could account for velocity discrepancies including barrel length, bore diameter/wear, etc.

Your perception is wrong.

All things being equal, you will have less drop at high altitudes, but as I already stated, elevation and sea level have nothing to do with what is going in the the 'bang' part of this equation.

In every way, but I see mathman has already covered it.

If Manual ABC lists bullet Y doing 2800 fps with 40grs of H666 as their max load, from a 22 inch barrel and you get 2500fps with that same load, bullet etc from the same length barrel, it's usually fairly easy to fix.

You add more powder till you get close to the listed velocity.

Actually, pretty sure that's technically not right. Drop is dependent on time in flight. You'll have less drop for a given distance at higher elevations because the air is thinner and it won't slow the bullet down as much as lower elevations. So a bullet will arrive at a given distance faster. Faster equals less time to drop.

But the bullet falls just as fast at higher elevations as lower, so the drop is the same rate. The bullets are just at different distances.

What, you mean to tell me gravity isn't stronger at sea level?!

Don't load the 1895 hot. Savage changed the bolt/receiver mating surface from flat to slightly curved about 1909. This was due to the corners of the earlier design developing cracks occasionally. When the 250-3000 came out about 1914 the receivers of rifles chambered in that cartridge were strengthened. The same thing when the 300 Savage came out about 1920. After about the mid 1920's the actions of all calibers were strengthened to handle the 300 Savage pressures. Under no circumstances should you try to load the 303 1895 to 300 Savage velocities and the resulting pressures. David

Go shoot in a vacuum, I'll stick with my statement.

Something like .1% or .2%.

One of my pet peeves. This bullet drops less than your bullet, or this cartridge doesn't drop as much as that cartridge. Bull pucky. Fire an arrow, a 22LR, a 300 Savage and a 300 Mag. horizontally at the same height and they all hit the ground at the same time. Drop doesn't vary, velocity and the ability to retain velocity varies (spire bullets versus roundnose, etc).

Good info on strength by age of our 99's, David. I'm thinking NorthwestHunter is talking about using LVR powder to get the extra couple hundred fps it is capable of producing in 30/30 sized cases using 30/30 level pressures (around 40K psi) rather than ramping up to 300 Savage level pressures (around 53K psi). I'd think he'll be OK there, won't he? Even with an 1890's aged rifle?

I bought three boxes of 300 Savage Superformance ammo hoping that it would give me a significant increase in velocity. I shot it in my 20" barreled Savage 99E and got a velocity of 2,600 fps, 140 fps lower than Hornady's listing. I broke a round down and found 44.5 grains of what I assume to be Leverevolution powder. The ammo wasn't very accurate, at least in that rifle. I have two other 99s in 300 Savage with barrels of 22" and 24". I haven't tried the Superformance ammo in them yet. I bought the component bullets which Hornady uses in the ammo from Midway and use a Lee Factory Crimp die, but I haven't loaded them yet.

The Hodgdon magazine-style loading manual sold on newsstands is full of great info, loads on many chamberings including the new Induron powders. However, Hodgdon has left out load data for the 300 Savage, sad to say.